Who determines point value and can it change?

[Carolinian]

You have hit on one of the key problems with the points scam. And BTW, the inventor of multu-developer points systems was a former loan shark (or ''tallyman'' as they are called there) in South Africa, and the lineage from him to RCI is rather direct. The system reeks of flim-flam.

The appeal to developers is obvious. One is to sell the same item twice by fleecing your existing members to pony up for a ''conversion''. But behond that it also offers them the opportunity to sell the same item over and over again. Let's say a developer has built a resort in a destination with limited availible land for expansion but is extremely popular and has a good tour flow of buyers. In a weeks system, he will ultimately sell out and lose access to that tour flow. In a points system, he simply builds resorts in lesser areas where his cost are much less and land is availible, and gives them all point values. He keeps selling at his prime location, but backs his further sales with inventory at the cheaper resorts, telling his purchasers that ''points are points''. The problem is that many of them are going to want to come back to the resort they toured not the lesser resorts, and there will not be enough inventory to handle them.

I saw an actual example of this on the NC Outer Banks. Peppertree/Equivest had largely sold out Outer Banks Beach Club I and II as normal timeshare weeks. They had a sales office and a good tour flow, but there were not any more oceanfront sites sufficient for a medium sized timeshare development. Presto! They started selling Equivest points and backing them with weeks halfway across the country. These buyers were toured at the Beach Club and shown charts of how many points it took for various weeks at the Beach Club, but guess what? When they tried to use their points at the Beach Club. there was no room at the inn! I think every timeshare on the Outer Banks has heard the squawks of those mad-as-hell buyers of Equivest points on the Outer Banks.

Weeks keeps developers as honest as any system could. Points opens the floodgates to flim-flam.

And as to points being a ''currency'' - bullhockey! One will never find any currency exchange house that will exchange any real currency for them!
If some are really trying to say ''currency-like'', then points are indeed like one time of currency, that found some places in the third world or in the old Soviet block that had its exchange value arbitrarily set by the central authorities and was not allowed to float on the real market. They are much like the old Soviet rouble that the central authorities fixed the value at $1.11, but could usually bought at the few banks that would deal in them for between 20 and 40 cents.

You can always find out how many owners there are at a weeks resort by counting deeds at the courthouse. You will never know how many points the resorts have sold or how many point they are creating.You can always buy more points at a sold out resort, always. I own at 12 different resorts, and the only resorts with sales offices on site are points conversion sales offices or points sales offices. The resorts will never let you pay a fee to convert points back back to weeks. Once they have your week converted to points they won't ever give it back to you. It let's you know what is more valuable. If points were more valuable why wouldn't they gladly rip you off by getting valuable points while giving you a less valuable week.. A week owned is guaranteed to be a week owned. Points can be devalued at any time by a resort as FF has done by not allowing resale points to count towards VIP status any more. Bluegreen is now devaluing any points sold resale unless purchased from one of their authorized re-sellers. These things make your points less valuable and they can change anything they want with points at any time.

As far as flexibility I just traded a 1 bed room silver crown for a 2 bed room gold crown oceanfront from RCI. I mainly buy where I want to stay and don't have to worry about trade values. The point flexibility argument is moot. There are so many dog resorts out there with points (as there are in weeks too) where the owners are promised to be able to stay in Aruba, Vail, anywhere they want. Well someone sometime will stay in the dog resorts because the showcase resorts will have all been reserved and the only way to redeem points is with what is left. Resorts can't keep buying dog resorts, selling more points, and have anyone believe that the prime resorts they show you to trade into will be available to anyone who owns enough points. At the Blugreen presentation I went to in Charleston they were trying to sell me a deed in the northeast at a dog telling me that I would never stay there, it was just a way to get Bluegreen points. I asked if they had a Lodge Alley Inn deeded week for sale (where I was visiting) and I was told points was all that matters, not what is on your deed. My friend who owns Blugreen buys more point every year when he travels. Where are all of these points coming from? Points will eventually collapse and you will be holding the equivalent of a Mark Mcguire rookie card. It was hot when you bought it, the best thing ever, years later worthless. A week is always a week, points values and rules can be changed at any time.

 

[Carolinian]

And for every "winner" (does sound good to me by the way) there is a loser. What will be out there for the owner of the week you took? A nice beach week in February? Perhaps a motel conversion in October? You don't know, they don't know and I don't know. Thus the "screwed" part as you/they gave up something with known value for a vague promise. While you feel you did OK lets hear from the others in the chain before we declare victory.

The kicker here is that this is not necessarily a trade up. In fact, it probably is not. Value is based on supply and demand; you know, the market. Orlando is very overbuilt, so awash in excess supply. Most blue weeks from most anywhere can trade in there, because they have similar supply/demand profiles.

 

[timeos2]

Supply can't totally offset basic poor value

The kicker here is that this is not necessarily a trade up. In fact, it probably is not. Value is based on supply and demand; you know, the market. Orlando is very overbuilt, so awash in excess supply. Most blue weeks from most anywhere can trade in there, because they have similar supply/demand profiles.

The OP saw it as a trade up, most here on the BBS would see it as a trade up. If in fact there were a market that had owner input you could make your argument about supply/demand but since there is no market and no input from anyone but the shadowy back rooms of the exchange companies, who you openly admit are manipulating the values - you've repeated that many times in your rental/points posts - then perception is reality. And an unpopular blue/white time for a popular time (I won't say red just popular) in a better area is a trade up no matter how you want to paint it. Ask the OP. And ask the owner whose week he got if that cold beach week is an equivalent trade and not a trade down. I think most here will already know the answer to that. So the exchange is not equal.

 

[BillR]

Simple answer . . .

Pick a points resort who charges their Maintenance Fees based upon COST PER POINT.

If the point value is increased, you get more points and pay more money.

If the point value is decreased, you get less ponts and pay less money.​

 

[tombo]

Deleted.

Please review the rules for posting on TUG. Duplicate Threads/posts are not allowed. You have already posted this same response here. Please refrain from posting duplicates in the future.

 

[Carolinian]

The OP saw it as a trade up, most here on the BBS would see it as a trade up. If in fact there were a market that had owner input you could make your argument about supply/demand but since there is no market and no input from anyone but the shadowy back rooms of the exchange companies, who you openly admit are manipulating the values - you've repeated that many times in your rental/points posts - then perception is reality. And an unpopular blue/white time for a popular time (I won't say red just popular) in a better area is a trade up no matter how you want to paint it. Ask the OP. And ask the owner whose week he got if that cold beach week is an equivalent trade and not a trade down. I think most here will already know the answer to that. So the exchange is not equal.

RCI Points manipulated values. They had no motive to do that in the Weeks trading mechanism until they started putting their own hand in the till for rentals. Now, unfortunately, they do have a big motive to cheat in Weeks, too.

Supply and demand are what determine comparable values. Something that may be nice in many ways but there is just too much of it for the demand that is out there is not going to have that much value. That is just the way the market works, whether or not those owning in such areas want to recognize it. I never say your area, or other overbuilt areas, are not nice, just that there is too much inventory there.

It is similar to the airline industry. There was a period that airlines added too much inventory to Europe and prices fell substantially.
That was not a result of a trip to Europe being any less of a good thing, but that there was too much supply for the demand. Indeed there were times that you could fly to Europe cheaper than across the US, and to most a trip to Europe beats a trip to somewhere else in the US by a country mile. I remember when you could regularly get a trip to London from Raleigh, NC for a couple of years as late as early June for under $300, all taxes included. The reality is that the market pays no attention to what someone thinks to be the ''inherent'' value of something.

The example in this thread of a ''trade up'' clearly illustrates the myth of the trades up. Yes, some are real, but others are illusory.
A trade to ''red'' hurricane season in the Caribbean is another good example.