Newbie asking advice about HGVC- NYC

Dear TUGs:

My wife and I were offered a timeshare at the new HGVC on West 57th St in New York. It's a studio, platinum, 5250 annual points, $1040 annual fee including taxes, convertible to HH points at 50:1, for $48,000. An incentive they offered was 15,000 bonus HGVC points, convertible at 25:1 to HH points (so that would be 375,000 HH points).

That's a lot of goodies, but that's a lot of money. We like the idea of using points at a variety of places, of being able to stay at a nice place in NYC from time to time without breaking the bank, and the conversion option to HH points. I've been reading up on this kind of thing frantically in the past day or two and I'm having a hard time gaining any perspective, so I'd be most grateful for your thoughts.

Just one thing more. We like the idea of the new HGVC in NYC, but that's not the main draw--we'd be reasonably happy at the NY Hilton Club a few blocks away--but we like the great point conversion ratio and the semi-exclusivity of the W 57th Club (which has been discussed here).

Many thanks.

Flying Fish

The advice given here over and over again is to buy HGVC resale at one of their cheaper resort locations (like the Vegas or Orlando resorts) then trade those points for stays at the more expemsive resorts.

West 57th is so new no one knows if you'll need to be a owner there to be able to reserve rooms or if the regular HGVC members will have a chance to also stay at west 57th.

FYI in Vegas or Orlando, you can often find 7000 platinum pts for about $12,000 So we talking about you paying an extra $36K for the right to own west 57th. ( not me!!)

Good LUck and welcome to TUG

Actually based on the new 2008 HGVC Member Guide, HGVC members can reserve rooms at the w57 Hilton Club. W57 something called a "home resort" reservation window that start 9 months prior to check-out date and more flexible than the normal HGVC home week reservation window. But Club reservations for HGVC members into the new Hilton club is 44 day before check-out (not the normal HGVC Club Reservation Window of 9 months before check-out) and open season is not available to HGVC members. There's also an additional $85 cleaning fee for Club reservations for 3 nights or less.

From the Club Rules on page 168
There are four types of resort reservations within the Club:
1) Home Week
2) Home Resort (currently applies to West 57th Street by Hilton Club)
3) Club
4) Open Season

1. Home Week Reservations are full week (seven consecutive nights) reservations at the resort at which a Member has an ownership interest in the season and unit type owned beginning on the resort's standard check-in day ("Home Week") during a period of time referred to as the "Home Week Reservation Window". During the Home Week Reservation Window, a Member has a priority reservation period to reserve their Home Week. This window lasts approximately ninety(90) days beginning one (1) year (365 days) prior to the start date of the desired check-in date and ending nine(9) months (276 days) in advance of the desired checkin date. When a Home week reservation is confirmed, the entire annual allotment of ClubPoints assigned to the Member for that ownership interest is used.

2. Home Resort Reservations are reservations at the resort which a Member has ownership interest for any number of nights in any unit type (subject to Member Club Points availability and accomodation availability). There is no minimum night stay requirement.
Home Resort reservations may be made during a period of time that begins nine(9) months to (276 days) prior to check-out date and ends forty-five (45) days in advance of the check-out date. Home Resort reservations are currently only available to owners at West 57th Street by Hilton (also known as 57th Street Vacation Suites) and may only be used with the ClubPoints associated with the specific ownership interest at that resort. Home Resort reservation may be offered at additional resorts in the future.

3. The Club Reservation Window for West 57th Street by Hilton Club begins forty-four (44) days prior to the desired check-out date and up to one day prior to the check-in date with no minimum night requirement. Refer to the ClubPoint Use Chart for the per night point values at each resort.

4. The Open Season Reservation Window for West 57th Street by Hilton Club begins fifteen (15) days prior to the desired check-out date and is limited to owners at that resort with no minimum night requirement


HGVC ClubPoint Values for West 57th Street by Hilton Club

Platinum weeks 7–29, 35-52
Studio Plus - 525pts M-Th / 1050pts F-SU / 5250pts for 7 nights
Studio Premier - 720pts M-Th / 1440pts F-SU / 7200pts for 7 nights
1BR - 720pts M-Th / 1440pts F-SU / 7200pts for 7 nights
1BR Plus - 930pts M-Th / 1860pts F-SU / 9300pts for 7 nights
1BR Premier - 1260pts M-Th / 2520pts F-SU / 12600pts for 7 nights
1BR Penthouse - 1680pts M-Th / 3360pts F-SU / 16800pts for 7 nights

Gold weeks 1–6, 29-34
Studio Plus - 375pts M-Th / 750pts F-SU / 3750pts for 7 nights
Studio Premier - 510pts M-Th / 1020pts F-SU / 5100pts for 7 nights
1BR - 510pts M-Th / 1020pts F-SU / 5100pts for 7 nights
1BR Plus - 630pts M-Th / 1260pts F-SU / 6300pts for 7 nights
1BR Premier - 870pts M-Th / 1740pts F-SU / 8700pts for 7 nights
1BR Penthouse - 1160pts M-Th / 2320pts F-SU / 11600pts for 7 nights

Note: Studio Premier is the same point value as a One Bedroom
Also the 1Br, 1BR Plus and 1BR Premier clubpoint values at W57th are the same as the new HGVC Grand Waikikian and Kings' Land villas

Flying Fish said:

Dear TUGs:

My wife and I were offered a timeshare at the new HGVC on West 57th St in New York. It's a studio, platinum, 5250 annual points, $1040 annual fee including taxes, convertible to HH points at 50:1, for $48,000. An incentive they offered was 15,000 bonus HGVC points, convertible at 25:1 to HH points (so that would be 375,000 HH points).

That's a lot of goodies, but that's a lot of money. We like the idea of using points at a variety of places, of being able to stay at a nice place in NYC from time to time without breaking the bank, and the conversion option to HH points. I've been reading up on this kind of thing frantically in the past day or two and I'm having a hard time gaining any perspective, so I'd be most grateful for your thoughts.

Just one thing more. We like the idea of the new HGVC in NYC, but that's not the main draw--we'd be reasonably happy at the NY Hilton Club a few blocks away--but we like the great point conversion ratio and the semi-exclusivity of the W 57th Club (which has been discussed here).

Many thanks.

Flying Fish

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It probably makes sense to buy one of the Hilton Club products if you really want to stay at the Hilton Club in NYC. HGVC members can't make reservation at the NY Hilton Club and only limited reservations (whatever is leftover 44 days before checkout) at the new W57 Hilton Club.

Otherwise you can buy resale at one of the other HGVC locations and still get the 25:1 point conversion.

Don't get caught up in the bonus. Say if you were to save up to $6,000 in hotel cost by using the 375,000 HHonors points then you're still spending $42,000 to buy the timeshare.

HGVC is a great product. I really don't know anything about the Hilton Club product. It's unclear if the two Hilton Club resorts operate the same. For example, on TUG there has been statements that the Hilton Club NY has City Points that can be converted to HGVC points however I see no reference to City Points for the new w57th Hilton Club in the 2008 HGVC Member Guide.

Definitely do your research and choose what works best for your travel needs.

Good Luck and Welcome to TUG

Dear Bill and Alwysonvac:

Thanks for your very helpful replies. The W 57 annual points cost around $9 per point, which is very high.

One more question. The main attraction for me and my wife is the ability to use points in other places and to convert them to HH points. We'd probably stay at the W 57 club itself only 2-4 days/yr. The W 57 Club sales people said that points earned at W 57 are convertible to HH points at 50:1, whereas at other HGVCs the point-conversion ratio is less, somewhere between 25:1 and 40:1. How would they know the difference? Isn't a point a point, wherever you spend it? For example, I see resales advertised for the NY Hilton Club for around $15 K for 9K annual points, or $1.67 per point. Are those 9000 annual points at least as good as the 5250 annual points at the W 57 club?

Thanks again.

Flying Fish

Flying Fish said:

Isn't a point a point, wherever you spend it?


For example, I see resales advertised for the NY Hilton Club for around $15 K for 9K annual points, or $1.67 per point. Are those 9000 annual points at least as good as the 5250 annual points at the W 57 club?

Thanks again.

Flying Fish

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Although HGVC calls itself "point based" it is, at the heart, a resort based TS system. You don't buy points with Hilton but a resort, season and unit size. That week than is worth so many "points".

If you want Hilton mostly to go to the other HGVC resorts, buy cheap weeks at the vegas or Orlando resorts resale and save yourself $30,000. It also sounds like hotel reward points are important to you, but you must remember that you must give up your TS after paying the MFs before you get hotel reward points. So if your MF in Vegas is $750/7000 pts but your MF in NYC is $1200/5200pts getting 25:1 vs 50:1 may be a wash.
{edited to add:
Vegas 25:1 -7000pt =175K HH pts /MF = 233 HH pts/$
NYC 50:1 -5200pt =260K HH pts /MF = 208 HH pts/$
So getting 50:1 isn't a better deal if you're paying significantly more in MFs}


BUY Hilton in NYC if that were you want to go on regular basis. And it sounds to me that the Hilton Club (resale) may be the best way to do that.

Flying Fish said:

Dear Bill and Alwysonvac:

Thanks for your very helpful replies. The W 57 annual points cost around $9 per point, which is very high.

One more question. The main attraction for me and my wife is the ability to use points in other places and to convert them to HH points. We'd probably stay at the W 57 club itself only 2-4 days/yr. The W 57 Club sales people said that points earned at W 57 are convertible to HH points at 50:1, whereas at other HGVCs the point-conversion ratio is less, somewhere between 25:1 and 40:1. How would they know the difference? Isn't a point a point, wherever you spend it? For example, I see resales advertised for the NY Hilton Club for around $15 K for 9K annual points, or $1.67 per point. Are those 9000 annual points at least as good as the 5250 annual points at the W 57 club?

Thanks again.

Flying Fish

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The Hilton Grand Vacations Company has two club membership programs: Hilton Grand Vacations Club and The Hilton Club. - see http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/about-hilton-grand-vacations-club.php

The existing NY Hilton Club (http://thehiltonclub.com/) is not part of the HGVC membership program. The Hilton Club is located at the Hilton New York Hotel, at 1335 Avenue of the Americas (6th Ave.) between 53rd and West 54th Streets. I don't know anything beyond the fact that HGVC members can't do an internal trade into the existing Hilton Club however Hilton Club members can trade into HGVC resorts using their City Points. I think this is a RTU property (not a deeded interest). An additional NYC location is being built (http://west57street.com/). It's also a Hilton Club but HGVC members will be able to do an internal trade. Both Hilton Club resorts are not listed as a HGVC Developed resort or a HGVC Affiliated resort - http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/timeshare-vacation-resorts.php)

I can only speak about HGVC points. I’m assuming Hilton Club members receive a separate Hilton Club Member Guide with details specific to their membership program. Hopefully a Hilton Club owner will chime in. This is the first year that HGVC included any information in their Member Guide regarding a Hilton Club Resort and it only includes information about the w57 resort.

HGVC and HHonors are independent programs. The HHonors program determines point requirement for each of their hotels - http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/rewards/hotels.do

As HGVC Members, we are automatically given Silver VIP HHonor status. This qualifies us for the exclusive VIP–Only hotel rewards - http://hhonors.hilton.com/en/hhonors/rewards/hrr/index.jhtml which allows stays of 6 to 14 nights at reduced hotel reward levels. The HHonors VIP-Only hotel award and the 4-night “AXON” hotel reward for American Express Hilton card members provide the best hotel exchange value.

For HGVC members, as of January 1, 2008, the conversion rate for any or all HGVC points to HHonors points is 1 to 25 if converted a year in advance (before Dec 31). All converted HGVC points are deposited into your HHonors account on Jan 1. You cannot convert HGVC points to HHonor points in the current year. However you can make an HHonors Hotel Reservation using HGVC points at a conversion rate of 1 to 20.

Here’s an old thread discussing the HGVC to HHonors Conversion - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31613

More info

If you want a basic understanding of the HGVC program take a look at the TUG advice page - http://www.tug2.net/advice/hgvc.htm
NOTE: It shows the point charts for the existing HGVC resort. The new resorts under construction (W57, Grand Waikikian & Kingsland) are using a new increased point structure.

Here's a recent thread regarding the new HGVC point structure - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64446.

This thread has examples of the annual HGVC maintenance fee for the existing HGVC resort - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57419

Thanks again for all your incredibly helpful and thoughtful advice. I'm glad I joined TUC, even though I didn't have to; $15 is a bargain to access the accumulated wisdom here.

Flying Fish

If you decide to purchase into one of the Hilton program just remember to plan any hotel reward trips sooner rather than later. All airline frequent flyer, credit card reward and hotel reward programs go through point devaluation and some are more frequent than others.

A great hotel exchange deal today may not be a great deal tomorrow due to the following
(1) Maintenance Fees will increase over time decreasing the exchange value
(2) HHONOR reward point requirement will increase over time which will eventually impact the number of hotel reward nights
(3) Per the HGVC Member Guide, the HGVC to HHonors conversion rate is subject to change without notice and the benefits available through these programs are subject to change, suspension or discontinuation at any time without prior notice.

So it's better to take advantage of the hotel reward stays using HGVC convert points now rather than later.

For HHonors discussions visit the Hilton HHonors Flyertalk board - http://flyertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=417

Alwysonvac: Great advice, thanks. Many years ago, I read in The Economist that airline miles were a devaluing currency, and that we should treat them as such (i.e., spend rather than save), and I've benefited greatly from that advice. The HGVC people would like to tell you that their points aren't a devaluing currency, but you and others here have convinced me that they are. I think I'm going to let HGVC keep its new resort for now, in past because of this but also based on other factors, which many of you have helped me see clearly.

Many thanks.

Flying Fish

A few thoughts on HGVC:

Always be in Hiltons pocket. That is, use next years points this year thereby never losing pointsfor non use.

Always buy Platinum, mf's the same for all seasons and are based on unit size, not points.

Several years ago we requested a studio at the manhattan club using 2200 HGVC points for a mid-december week. HGVC called us and said they did not have a MC available but would put us in at 53rd st Hilton Club. We took it gladly. I know many say you can't trade into there, and I think they are right, but I can only relate what happen to us.

For future reference, updated Post #3 above with the "Home Week Reservation" description from the HGVC Member Guide.

Someone asked for a Hilton Club owner to chime in -- so here I am.

We bought 9,000 pts/year at Hilton Club a few years ago. It will expire (there's probably a more official term but I can't recall what it might be) after 28 years so, unlike other properties, it is not deeded for life.

When we purchased, we were given many bonus points. I wish I had known about this site at the time! I was a total novice about booking strategies. I learned a lot that first summer. We booked a few days in South Beach at the HGVC property and it was great! Because were were NYC Club members, we had more frequent housekeeping than we would have had otherwise. (I think there were other perks but I can't recall what they were.) The unit was great (2- bedroom facing the water right on the strip in South Beach).

From there, we went to the Bahamas. I converted some city points to HH points to book at the British Colonial Hilton in Nassau. To accommodate our family of four, I had to book 2 rooms and it cost a lot of points. Where we had been treated like royalty in South Beach, we were treated like second-rate citizens in Nassau. I had the feeling that they considered us lucky to be getting rooms for points at all. (I have had much better luck using HH points since then... but this was my first impression!) I could not book a suite with my HH points and the potential to be upgraded if something else happened to be available didn't work for us in this case because the hotel was pretty booked. In retrospect, it would have been much smarter and effective use of my city points to stay at other HGVC properties -- and wait to use my HH points that I have earned on my credit card to stay at Hilton Hotel properties.

Speaking of earning points on credit cards... Buying at NY Hilton Club gave me HH Gold status. I have often booked rooms with my HH points and been upgraded because of the gold status. That has worked quite nicely.

Given the limited number of rooms available on the Club floor of the NY Hilton, I am happy that it is not open to the whole HGVC community. So many people would be booking rooms in NYC that I would never be able to go myself. As it is, there have been weekends that I have been unable to book a room. In those cases, I have booked at other Hilton properties in NYC using my HH points. My last stay was at the Waldorf Astoria. Other times, I have stayed at a Hampton Inn or Hilton Gardens. I finally feel that I have learned how to use the system to my advantage.

Thanks Piper for chiming in.

I forgot that Hilton Club members received Gold HHonors Status and I wasn't aware that Hilton Club Members were treated differently at HGVC resorts.

On the TUG advice board we have detailed information about the HGVC but nothing on the Hilton Club. I'm interested in what one can get with City Points, the conversion rate for HGVC and HHonors, the reservation windows and point charts. If you have some time, Bill is requesting info on the Hilton Club on another thread.

we were treated like second-rate citizens in Nassau. I had the feeling that they considered us lucky to be getting rooms for points at all.

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I know exactly how you felt. It has happened to us in other destinations. This is one of the things I wish HGVC would address. I think it was just easier for them to use the existing HHonors hotel reward process instead of creating a separate hotel exchange program for HGVC & Hilton Club members. I've been a Hilton HHonors member much longer than a HGVC member. As a Hilton HHonors member, I guess I felt lucky to get rooms and upgrades on points since they were "free" based on business and personal travel. However as a HGVC member this is no longer a free stay. I'm paying for this stay. I think the reservation should be viewed as paid stay not a free hotel reward stay. As a HGVC member, I'm not expecting a suite or executive club level room but I expect a room that is better than the standard hotel room HHonors members get for free. I would also like the option to pay for a room upgrade if available.

As a non-elite HGVC member, I use the Hilton AMEX Credit Card to get Gold HHonors status.

I have been using my City Points for stays at the Hilton Club so I haven't converted to HGVC since that initial stay in South Beach.

The impression I was given when we stayed in FLA was that we had a higher status than other HGVC owners. I know some folks have used the term ELITE on this site -- but I don't know exactly what that means or if that's what we have. We had housekeeping services more often than the usual -- and I think we got free Wi-Fi. (So sorry I can't be more detailed. It was too long ago!)

As to the second-rate status using HH points.... I agree that there should be a different system when you are using your HGVC points. When we first bought at Hilton Club, we were promised upgrades to Hilton stays with our gold status. During most stays, we have been upgraded to include breakfast or afternoon snacks/cocktails. In a couple of cases, we got nicer rooms. We've never been upgraded to a suite. Personally, I would like to be able to book a suite using more of my points if necessary! It is frustrating to only be able to get what they happen to have available.

One bonus to gold status that I experienced recently.... We were booking a stay in NYC on a very busy weekend. Many places were fully booked. Because of the gold status, they gave us a room that we would not have gotten with a lesser ranking.

Piper,

Can you tell me how many city pts it would cost you to stay a week in a 2 bedroom during summer in Orlando?

I'm asking because I think your "City pts" are of more value than regular HGVC pts. So it will cost you less than the 7000 HGVC pts it would cost a regular HGVC owner.

Flying Fish said:

Thanks again for all your incredibly helpful and thoughtful advice. I'm glad I joined TUC, even though I didn't have to; $15 is a bargain to access the accumulated wisdom here.

Flying Fish

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Flying Fish,

Welcome to Tug! Here's a link to learn how to change your "Guest" status to "Member" status.


Richard

Another happy Hilton Club member

Piper said:

The impression I was given when we stayed in FLA was that we had a higher status than other HGVC owners. I know some folks have used the term ELITE on this site -- but I don't know exactly what that means or if that's what we have.

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I agree with Piper. For one thing, our HHonors gold card has an imbedded black strip at the top with "The HIlton Club" printed on it. We now have 19000 points at The Hilton Club. We first bought 7000 and later added another 9000. We live in Washington so going to NY is very convenient and we go several times a year. I also agree with Piper's point that I am glad other HGVC members can't book into The Hilton Club until 44 days before because it's a small club. It will always be seperate since the new 57th Street property is going to be an HGVC property and not a Hilton CLub property. As a point of interest, Hilton Club members will not be able to book into the 57th Street property until 44 days before either. That's fine with me as I assume more people will be trying to get into the 57th Street property which will leave more room at The Hilton Club.

Points transfer to HHonors at 25 to 1. When you trade for any Hilton family hotel they do the conversion to HHonors points and then book it for you. The advantage you have is that you get to use the Hilton Club reservations line to do this. They seem to have more pull than just regular members. I've used some of my bonus points for an upcoming trip where we are sailing across the Atlantic. Before the cruise we're staying for three nights in the Barbados Hilton. When we land in Italy we're staying for four nights at the Rome Cavalieri Hotel and then going for a week to the Florence Metropole Hotel. All of these were done on bonus points.

Personally, I love The Hilton Club.

Bill4728 said:

Piper,

Can you tell me how many city pts it would cost you to stay a week in a 2 bedroom during summer in Orlando?

I'm asking because I think your "City pts" are of more value than regular HGVC pts. So it will cost you less than the 7000 HGVC pts it would cost a regular HGVC owner.

Click to expand...

A 2-bedroom in Orlando (Sea World or International Drive) during August would be 3,400 city points. (FYI: Studio is 1,700 points; 1-bedroom is 2,400 points; 3-bedroom is 4,000 points.)

Piper said:

A 2-bedroom in Orlando (Sea World or International Drive) during August would be 3,400 city points. (FYI: Studio is 1,700 points; 1-bedroom is 2,400 points; 3-bedroom is 4,000 points.)

Click to expand...

Well that confirms what I thought.

City points are worth twice a HGVC point. This is also why (as the OP said in the first post) that owners at the Hitlon Club get a 1:50 pt to HHonors rate instead of the standard HGVC rate of 1:25


Piper,

You're HGVC "Elite" because you have 9000 city points which means you have over 18,000 HGVC pts (elite is 14,000).

Hilton Honors conversion for The Hilton Club is 25 to 1, not 50 to 1.

Flying Fish said:

My wife and I were offered a timeshare at the new HGVC on West 57th St in New York. It's a studio, platinum, 5250 annual points, $1040 annual fee including taxes, convertible to HH points at 50:1, for $48,000.

Click to expand...

Piper said:

A 2-bedroom in Orlando (Sea World or International Drive) during August would be 3,400 city points.

Click to expand...

Note: this is half the point requirement for regular HGVC owners, which leads me to believe that "City points" are worth two times what regular HGVC are worth.

KathyA said:

Hilton Honors conversion for The Hilton Club is 25 to 1, not 50 to 1.

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I don't want to fight with you about it, but if that true it a terrible deal for Hilton Club owners. If their "City points" are worth two times what regular HGVC are worth. Shouldn't their conversion rate be twice what regular HGVC are worth? And Flying Fish said that the convertion rate at West 57th will be 50:1

Flying Fish said:

I'm glad I joined TUC, even though I didn't have to; $15 is a bargain to access the accumulated wisdom here.

Flying Fish

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Welcome to TUG!

If you'd like your posts to show as coming from a "TUG member" as opposed to "Guest", follow the directions here:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=109&postcount=1

It's not as complicated as it looks. But if you have any problems, just ask Bill

Bill4728 said:

Note: this is half the point requirement for regular HGVC owners, which leads me to believe that "City points" are worth two times what regular HGVC are worth.


I don't want to fight with you about it, but if that true it a terrible deal for Hilton Club owners. If their "City points" are worth two times what regular HGVC are worth. Shouldn't their conversion rate be twice what regular HGVC are worth? And Flying Fish said that the convertion rate at West 57th will be 50:1

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I will make a call on Monday and see what they say about the conversion rate. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I found that I was not as happy using HH points. I can get exactly what I want using CityPoints -- either at the Hilton Club (studio/1-bdr/2bdr) or thru HGVC. Converting to HH points means that I have NO choice in my reservation and will get an upgrade only if it happens to be available. Unless I absolutely can't use my CityPoints within the year (and this NEVER is an issue), I would not choose to convert them no matter what the rate is!

I love using my Gold HH status and points earned on credit cards to stay at regular hotels in the Hilton family. (Embassy Suites is great for layover nights with the family. One room can accommodate our family of 4 easily.)