Kaanapali Beach Club questions

dougp26364 said:

Trust owners get 13 months in their trust, deeded week owners get 12 weeks home resort reservation window, THE Club can book at the 10 month point. It is my belief that there is a misinterpretation in the documents. Keep in mind that trust owners and deeded week owners are going to have different documents. Check you're own documents to see what was agreed upon in writing when the unit was purchased.

I can say with definity that Polo Towers deeded week owners only have a 12 month home resort reservation window. Polo Towers owners who convert their deeded week ownership into one of the DRI trusts will then have a 13 month home resort (trust group) reservation window. The only way I can reserve at the 13 month point is to convert our deeded weeks to a trust http://m.contracostatimes.com/contracosta/index.htmownership. This is something I haven't been willing to do based upon trust MF's and adding in the trust management fee on top of THE Club's management fee. By the time you get involved in one of the trusts the management fee's have REALLY been piled on one on top of the other.

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Feckman - have you successfully booked at 13 months? What Doug mentioned is my understanding ... but, I also own at Polo Towers. On my purchase contract, the 12 months reservation window was written down.

winger said:

Feckman - have you successfully booked at 13 months? What Doug mentioned is my understanding ... but, I also own at Polo Towers. On my purchase contract, the 12 months reservation window was written down.

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No, but our broker, Syed Sarmad, told us about the 13 month booking window for multi-deeded week owners while we were evaluating our purchase, and the 390 day window is pretty clear in the Disclosure Statement. This document was in force well before DRI took over management of the KBC (date accepted: 6/3/1998; date revised: 9/16/2007).

feckman said:

No, but our broker, Syed Sarmad, told us about the 13 month booking window for multi-deeded week owners while we were evaluating our purchase, and the 390 day window is pretty clear in the Disclosure Statement. This document was in force well before DRI took over management of the KBC (date accepted: 6/3/1998; date revised: 9/16/2007).

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This could be resort-specific. Very nice.

I would be curious to find out if their online booking system allows, OR it blocks it since this is maybe unique to KBC when you would simply need to call in the reservation to manually override the system. Please report back if you ever try utilizing the 13 months provision.

Better check it out!

feckman said:

No, but our broker, Syed Sarmad, told us about the 13 month booking window for multi-deeded week owners while we were evaluating our purchase, and the 390 day window is pretty clear in the Disclosure Statement. This document was in force well before DRI took over management of the KBC (date accepted: 6/3/1998; date revised: 9/16/2007).

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There are two things to take into consideration. First, in order for you to book 13 months out, you need to be reserving two consecutive weeks. You can't book one week 13 weeks out according to this document, and those two weeks would have to be at KBC. Marriott has something similar to this in their contract for multiple week owners. So there is no 13 week advantage if you are only booking one week.

Also, since you are buying resale, I would strongly suggest that you call DRI to check to see if that 13 week will transfer to new ownership. It's possible that it may not.

csalter2 said:

Also, since you are buying resale, I would strongly suggest that you call DRI to check to see if that 13 week will transfer to new ownership. It's possible that it may not.

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Is there still an owner reservations operation at the resort? If so, as a deeded owner that is where I would check and not with DRI. If you do end up being referred to DRI, I would not ask them if this transferred with ownership. I would ask them what the procedure is that you need to follow to be able to book at 390 days. If they profess to now know what you're talking about then point them to the provision in the disclosure statement.

I'm pretty sure that the provision will transfer with resale. All of the similar quirks in the disclosure staement for our Poipu unit transferred with the resale. If it's in the Disclosure Statement and the Disclosure Statement doesn't specify that the perk is non-transferable, then it would be difficult for them to assert that the perk is changed. The Disclosure Statement is a legal document, included as part of the original sales package, and it would be very difficult for them to unilaterally change the terms of sale.

csalter2 said:

There are two things to take into consideration. First, in order for you to book 13 months out, you need to be reserving two consecutive weeks.

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Elsewhere in the document, it talks about consecutive or concurrent weeks. It is my understanding that as long as both units are being reserved (a) for the same week or (b) for consecutive weeks, 390 day priority is granted. It is highly unlikely that we will ever do anything but consecutive or concurrent stays, so this works well for us.

csalter2 said:

Also, since you are buying resale, I would strongly suggest that you call DRI to check to see if that 13 week will transfer to new ownership. It's possible that it may not.

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Our agent has bought and sold many KBC units, and he said that it transfers so I'm not worried about it. As there is no other superseding document to the Disclosure Statement, I can certainly make a good case if an issue ever arises.

feckman said:

No, but our broker, Syed Sarmad, told us about the 13 month booking window for multi-deeded week owners while we were evaluating our purchase, and the 390 day window is pretty clear in the Disclosure Statement. This document was in force well before DRI took over management of the KBC (date accepted: 6/3/1998; date revised: 9/16/2007).

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Brokers are often wrong. They deal with to many different systems, all with different rules, and can't keep up.

The 13 month reservation for multi week ownership is a Marriott Vacation Club rule, not a DRI rule. DRI does allow trust owners to reserve within their trust group 13 months in advance. It was one of the perks sold for converting to the trust ownership.

The problem with DRI is that it's a conglomeration of several systems. One group bought out another group that bought out another group. Over the years Sunterra aquired Embassey Resorts and Epic Resorts and then Sunterra was aquired by Diamond Resorts. So it is possible that some, but not all, resorts within DRI allow multiple week deeded owners to reserve 13 months in advance. However, you can't make it a blanket statement for all DRI resorts. I know of two examples where it's not true and that would be the Villa's at Polo Towers and The Suite's at Polo Towers. I'm pretty certain it's not true for the vast majority of formerly Sunterra resorts. I can't say what Embassey or Epic did prior to Sunterra aquiring them.

feckman said:

Elsewhere in the document, it talks about consecutive or concurrent weeks. It is my understanding that as long as both units are being reserved (a) for the same week or (b) for consecutive weeks, 390 day priority is granted. It is highly unlikely that we will ever do anything but consecutive or concurrent stays, so this works well for us.



Our agent has bought and sold many KBC units, and he said that it transfers so I'm not worried about it. As there is no other superseding document to the Disclosure Statement, I can certainly make a good case if an issue ever arises.

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Interesting in that this really sounds like Marriott.

dougp26364 said:

Brokers are often wrong. They deal with to many different systems, all with different rules, and can't keep up.

The 13 month reservation for multi week ownership is a Marriott Vacation Club rule, not a DRI rule. DRI does allow trust owners to reserve within their trust group 13 months in advance. It was one of the perks sold for converting to the trust ownership.

The problem with DRI is that it's a conglomeration of several systems. One group bought out another group that bought out another group. Over the years Sunterra aquired Embassey Resorts and Epic Resorts and then Sunterra was aquired by Diamond Resorts. So it is possible that some, but not all, resorts within DRI allow multiple week deeded owners to reserve 13 months in advance. However, you can't make it a blanket statement for all DRI resorts. I know of two examples where it's not true and that would be the Villa's at Polo Towers and The Suite's at Polo Towers. I'm pretty certain it's not true for the vast majority of formerly Sunterra resorts. I can't say what Embassey or Epic did prior to Sunterra aquiring them.

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Doug - with all due respect.

while I don't know this particular broker, I can say that a broker who knows a particular system can be very knowledgeable. When we purchased in Poipu, Hawaii Timeshare Resale was an extremely valuable resource; they knew details of all of the resorts on Kaua'i in great detail.

Also in this particular case, upthread feckman posted an actual scan of a relevant page of the actual KBC Disclosure Document that has the referenced reservation rights. He's not in the least confusing Marriott and KBC. If, in fact, this is the effective Diclosure Statement language associated with the original sale of the deed(s), then it certainly appears that there is 390-day reservation right for owners of multiple deeded weeks at KBC when they reserve for consecutive weeks.

dougp26364 said:

However, you can't make it a blanket statement for all DRI resorts.

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I have not made any blanket statement about DRI resorts in general nor any statement about any other specific resort. We will only ever own deeded weeks at KBC and will NEVER own trust points through Diamond. Any examples i have offered relate ONLY to deeded-week ownership at KBC.

Hope that clears things up.

I don't own KBC or any Trust-based Points. I own deeded weeks: one unit at Fall Creek, One at Polo Suites and one at Polo Villas that were all converted to Club Points several years ago. So I have access to all DRI resorts in The Club and Affiliates. It seems I can book Hawaii Collection at the 10 mo. mark. Anytime I have checked for availability (save prime-time weeks like Christmas), I have had no problems booking 6-10 mo. out. I just checked and found a good bit of availability from 14-Nov-13 through 1-Mar-14 for all room types, save Christmas and New Years weeks. If you can plan ahead and are in The Club, then 9-10 mo. out should have no issues with booking there. I have done so 5 or 6 times in the past few years w/ no problem. Of course if you want to spend every Christmas at KBC on Maui, then you might want to actually own there so you can book 12-13 mo. out.

dougp26364 said:

Brokers are often wrong. They deal with to many different systems, all with different rules, and can't keep up.

The 13 month reservation for multi week ownership is a Marriott Vacation Club rule, not a DRI rule. DRI does allow trust owners to reserve within their trust group 13 months in advance. It was one of the perks sold for converting to the trust ownership.

The problem with DRI is that it's a conglomeration of several systems. One group bought out another group that bought out another group. Over the years Sunterra aquired Embassey Resorts and Epic Resorts and then Sunterra was aquired by Diamond Resorts. So it is possible that some, but not all, resorts within DRI allow multiple week deeded owners to reserve 13 months in advance. However, you can't make it a blanket statement for all DRI resorts. I know of two examples where it's not true and that would be the Villa's at Polo Towers and The Suite's at Polo Towers. I'm pretty certain it's not true for the vast majority of formerly Sunterra resorts. I can't say what Embassey or Epic did prior to Sunterra aquiring them.

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Syed Sarmad has a very good reputation - particularly on this board of which he is a poster. I don't think he is an "average" broker. Also DRI cannot supersede the governing docs of the Resort unless they were able to change them from control of the HOA. I am not a KBC owner and am not familiar with their HOA or Governing Docs but if Syed has reported successfull implementation I would tend to believe it.

fluke said:

Syed Sarmad has a very good reputation - particularly on this board of which he is a poster. I don't think he is an "average" broker.

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A big +1 on this. Syed has been GREAT to work with, and I'd highly recommend his services to anyone looking to work with a broker. Doing so may be (marginally) more expensive in the short run, but in my opinion having someone as knowledgable, responsive and professional -- not to mention patient! -- in your corner is more than worth any premium in the long run.

He might be right. I thought I had made that clear. Still, I stand by my statement that brokers are often wrong, even if their are a few that are rarely wrong.

DRI is an inherently difficult system to understand. I know that DRI does have a provision for 13 month reservation but, that's contained in the trust documents. Did I miss where it definitively shows the posted document is from a deeded week purchase and not a trust purchase or conversion? I myself have two sets of documents for our Polo Towers ownership after joiningTHE Club. While I know there's a difference I could probably copy and post a portion of one representing or believing it's the other.

Maybe KBC does have the provision for multiple week owners to make reservations 13 months out. Maybe KBC offered this under one management company but not the others. I do know I read these and other timeshare forums frequently and this is the first I've heard of it. Thus, I'm skeptical. At this time I think the voice of caution is prudent until we have owners with direct knowledge this is indeed accurate. Right now there's a few actual DRI owners who hadn't heard of this with deeded weeks and one broker. If you sell several systems (maybe this broker specializes in DRI, I don't know), I can see where it would be easy to confuse systems.

The concurrent/consecutive week reservations at 13 months is a mult. week benefit sounds amazingly like the Marriott weeks system. Is there some confusion between Marriott mult week, DRI trust and DRI mult deeded weeks? I believe the potential is relatively high and think it must be considered.

dougp26364 said:

Did I miss where it definitively shows the posted document is from a deeded week purchase and not a trust purchase or conversion?

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This should answer your question. And it should be noted that we are not DRI owners. To the best of my knowledge, we are deeded-week owners at a resort that DRI manages, governed by regulations in force before DRI took over. Big difference.

Thank you for posting this. I will say that, due to all the mergers, take overs and bankruptcy buy outs, DRI has to be one of the most complicated timeshare systems on the market. It's amazing that DRI can keep track of all the different sets of rules. Is it any wonder management fees are so high?

Originally Posted by dougp26364
Did I miss where it definitively shows the posted document is from a deeded week purchase and not a trust purchase or conversion?

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feckman said:

This should answer your question. And it should be noted that we are not DRI owners. To the best of my knowledge, we are deeded-week owners at a resort that DRI manages, governed by regulations in force before DRI took over. Big difference.

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And beyond the PDF Feckman posted, in 1998 there were no trust or point offerings at KBC. Everything was fee simple. Sunterra didn't begin selling Club Sunterra in Hawaii until about 2004, which is when the Hawaii trust was created.

I bought a deeded week at The Point At Poipu in 2004 and it came with membership in The Club. In previous years I couldn't use the points to book KBC more than 10 months in advance. This year when I went to book KBC for 2014, it let me book 12 months in advance. I'm not complaining, but DRI is so complicated even the software developers of their web site can't keep track of all the rules.

artringwald said:

I bought a deeded week at The Point At Poipu in 2004 and it came with membership in The Club. In previous years I couldn't use the points to book KBC more than 10 months in advance. This year when I went to book KBC for 2014, it let me book 12 months in advance. I'm not complaining, but DRI is so complicated even the software developers of their web site can't keep track of all the rules.

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Yep. Some things they don't even attempt to do on the web site, such as integrating grandfather clauses. If you have a grandfather clause you can only use it over the phone. And when we first received our grandfather clause the system was supposedly set up so that when I talked to a rep on the phone they could access the grandfather letter, but they never could. I wound up faxing a copy to them over and over, and the faxes kept getting lost. For the first few years the only way I could use it was to call Ohana at the resort and speak to Patti Ornellas, who could see the letter and had the power at the resort to override the main reservation system.

At the DRI message board I mentioned several times concerns I had that the system wasn't showing me all of the inventory it should. I was finally able to confirm with a senior rep in reservations that the system had a bug, and she wrote out a trouble ticket for IT. Reportedly it is now fixed - after about nine months. I haven't test driven it yet to verify the bug is fixed.

T_R_Oglodyte said:

Yep. Some things they don't even attempt to do on the web site, such as integrating grandfather clauses. If you have a grandfather clause you can only use it over the phone. And when we first received our grandfather clause the system was supposedly set up so that when I talked to a rep on the phone they could access the grandfather letter, but they never could. I wound up faxing a copy to them over and over, and the faxes kept getting lost. For the first few years the only way I could use it was to call Ohana at the resort and speak to Patti Ornellas, who could see the letter and had the power at the resort to override the main reservation system.

At the DRI message board I mentioned several times concerns I had that the system wasn't showing me all of the inventory it should. I was finally able to confirm with a senior rep in reservations that the system had a bug, and she wrote out a trouble ticket for IT. Reportedly it is now fixed - after about nine months. I haven't test driven it yet to verify the bug is fixed.

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Now that you've mentioned this, I witnessed a situation at The Ridge at Sedona. There were two gentlemen at the front desk trying to get their golf passes, which were included as a perk with their original purchase. At this point in time they apparently have to go through a song and dance every year with the front desk, who has to go get someone that can take care of it for them.

I enjoy our DRI ownership but, for all it's simplicity it can be very complicated and, at times, apparently frustrating if you happen to be someone who has grandfathered benefits.

I don't own at KBC or have any Trust-based Points but am a member of the Club with weeks in Greensprings and Bent Creek. While visiting KBC in March, we went to a presentation and were talked into joining the trust. After thinking it over, we rescinded because we felt like we were pressured at the time and just weren't comfortable with making a decision so quickly. That being said last week we were contacted by someone in the corporate office who offered us a discounted rate if we were to revisit the option of transferring into the trust. However since I was able to research a little and think about the offer after calculating the math, it would cost us $1500 more a year in maintenance fees which seems like a lot for an additional 2500 points that we were required to purchase to transfer our weeks into the trust. My question is what exactly are the benefits of being in the trust vs. using the points to travel back to KBC and is this worth it? My husband and I love HI but live in the midwest so it isn't very easy to get out as much as we would like now but we were looking at this more for when he retires. We had no problem booking the reservations 10 months out but they keep telling us that in the future unless we own there it will be hard to get a reservation if owners are booking 13 mo out. I've been a deeded member in the Club since Diamond took over and never really had any problems booking reservations. I guess I'm just trying to make some sense of this and would appreciate any information anymore can offer me. Thanks,

I don't like the trusts because your paying more in MF to support the extra layer of management and then they get your HOA vote. If we went to KBC for a week every year, I'd be more likely to buy a deeded float/float week than trust points. KBC has never been hard for us to book 10 months out, and we usually go in Feb/March.

we arrived KBC Friday at 3 pm. When we check in, I told the front desk that we requested room ending with 08. We had to wait for about 15 minutes for them to get us room 708. We had a beautiful corner room with wrapped around lanai, one side facing ocean and the other side overlook the swimming pool and ocean. The room is gorgeous. When open the curtains of the sliding glass door, it almost looks like a huge stateroom on a cruise line since it is the ocean you can see from the room.

We went for the owner's update because i need to find out some question.
1. The owners' chart indicated in 2008, 70% of the owner in KBC are trust members. only 30% remain deeded. The percentage of trust growed more since 2008.
2. There is more inventories for Hawaii trust members. The deeded has less inventory. Trusted members usually get better rooms. It is difficult for deeded owner to have the corner ocean front room.
3. The inventory for KBC is getting fewer and fewer. DRI acquired more resorts in 2013. One of the most attracted reason for the newly acquired resorts to join to the trust is the Hawaii properties. So the competition for trust owner to get into KBC in 10 months window is getting tighter from 2014 unless you own Hawaii trust.
4. There is none of the Arizona trust member be Hawaii trust. The early owner of the Arizona trust members belongs to US trust. Only the one who purchased into Hawaii trust after the conversion from the developer. So far all the inventory of Hawaii trust in Arizona are still hold by DRI. It will be harder to get into KBC in 2014 unless you can book 13 months in advance.
5. The ocean front unit of 11,500 points is sold at a discount price to platinum member of $65,000. In the past the more points you have, the purchase of additional would be cheaper. This is going to go away in July 2013. They would not allow you to bring in the resale points to the club after July 2013.
6. The multi deeded owners can reserve 13 month in advance. They will get the category of the room assignment matching the deed. If the ocean front unit, the trust point owners, especially for elite members, will get the corner rooms before the deeded owners. from 2014, only the points get from developer will be count as elite and not resale can be brought in.

Of course the above is from the marketing people.

Anyway, we have a great time here. Weather is great. We took a Hawaii raft adventure, saw a lots of fishes and dolphins. We feel our own beach by KBC is very good for snorkeling. We see more fishes more variety here than the Hanauma bay in Honolulu. I would highly recommend coming here snorkel and have a great time.

Sales talk

That's just a salesman trying to get you to buy more points. I heard the same story three years ago when I was there. I was sitting there during prime time in July and the saleslady tried to tell me I could not get to KBC during prime time and there I was sitting in front of her with my ocean view, excuse me, ocean front room from my 10 month reservation. I have checked every year and noticed that there is always inventory at KBC during the summers. You may have difficulty getting a 2 bedroom, but there are usually always one bedrooms available. In fact I just checked, there are still ocean view one bedrooms available right now in July and August.

I love that one about the platinum member of $65,000 gets additional discounts. They want to sell even when you are at the highest level in the Club. They don't stop, do they?

Enjoy your time there.

ccwu said:

we arrived KBC Friday at 3 pm. When we check in, I told the front desk that we requested room ending with 08. We had to wait for about 15 minutes for them to get us room 708. We had a beautiful corner room with wrapped around lanai, one side facing ocean and the other side overlook the swimming pool and ocean. The room is gorgeous. When open the curtains of the sliding glass door, it almost looks like a huge stateroom on a cruise line since it is the ocean you can see from the room.

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Are the rooms ending in 08 a 2 bd, and if so are there ending #'s which are better for a 1 bd?