[2020] A little stock market sense

[easyrider]

The U.S. debt clock now has a secret window open from 6 pm to 12 am. Dollar to Gold and silver ratio are now at zero.

Bill

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[dago]

That's what happened to many people. Even with long term care insurance going to the "home" is expensive.

Bill

Yeah. Your right. My LTC insurance claim( for spouse) will be used up by the end of next year. So starting in 2025 I'm looking at at least 100k/year. Thankfully, I was talked into purchasing a LTC policy years ago.

 

[easyrider]

Yeah. Your right. My LTC insurance claim( for spouse) will be used up by the end of next year. So starting in 2025 I'm looking at at least 100k/year. Thankfully, I was talked into purchasing a LTC policy years ago.

We need to get the LTC insurance pretty soon. It's been on the list of things to do for a while now.

Bill

 

[Superchief]

We need to get the LTC insurance pretty soon. It's been on the list of things to do for a while now.

Bill

LTC insurance now is totally inaffordable. We will make our boomerang daughters take care of us as repayment.

 

[easyrider]

LTC insurance now is totally inaffordable. We will make our boomerang daughters take care of us as repayment.

I'm kind of thinking along your lines but I like options.

Bill

 

[CO skier]

What Does the Average Retiree Have Saved?

Can You Guess How Many Americans Actually Retire With a Million Bucks?

Saving $1 million (or more) for retirement is a great goal to have. Putting that much aside could make it easier to live your preferred lifestyle when you retire, without having to worry about running short of money. However, not … Continue reading → The post What Percentage of Retirees Have a...

finance.yahoo.com

The Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances tracks retirement savings data for different age groups in the U.S. According to the most recent survey that was completed in 2019, the average retirement savings by age breaks down like this:

• $426,000 for those aged 65 to 74
• $357,000 for those aged 75 and older

As you can see, those numbers are well below the $1 million mark. They represent how much the average person 65 and up have saved in retirement accounts, including 401(k) plans and Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs).

If you look at median figures, the numbers change even more. The median represents the middle number in a group of numbers. The Federal Reserve data shows that 65 to 74-year-olds have a median of $164,000 in their retirement accounts while those 75 and older have $83,000 saved for retirement.


Looks like that "Secret Weapon" is a dud.

 

[easyrider]

So the US debt clock has been showing odd things lately. Today it's an Andrew Jackson quote.

Bill

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[easyrider]

What Does the Average Retiree Have Saved?

Can You Guess How Many Americans Actually Retire With a Million Bucks?

Saving $1 million (or more) for retirement is a great goal to have. Putting that much aside could make it easier to live your preferred lifestyle when you retire, without having to worry about running short of money. However, not … Continue reading → The post What Percentage of Retirees Have a...

finance.yahoo.com

The Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances tracks retirement savings data for different age groups in the U.S. According to the most recent survey that was completed in 2019, the average retirement savings by age breaks down like this:

• $426,000 for those aged 65 to 74
• $357,000 for those aged 75 and older

As you can see, those numbers are well below the $1 million mark. They represent how much the average person 65 and up have saved in retirement accounts, including 401(k) plans and Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs).

If you look at median figures, the numbers change even more. The median represents the middle number in a group of numbers. The Federal Reserve data shows that 65 to 74-year-olds have a median of $164,000 in their retirement accounts while those 75 and older have $83,000 saved for retirement.


Looks like that "Secret Weapon" is a dud.

I would have thought it was much lower regarding the median. I read that maybe 10% of retirees have a million in assets. I think there are over 50 million retirees so that would be about 5 million with a million or more. If each one purchased $20,000 a year on retirement fun that would be 100 million spent. Is that enough to effect anything ? Idk.

Bill

 

[CO skier]

I think there are over 50 million retirees so that would be about 5 million with a million or more. If each one purchased $20,000 a year on retirement fun that would be 100 million spent.

You will want to triple-check your arithmetic, because it is off by 3 orders of magnitude.

 

[Brett]

What Does the Average Retiree Have Saved?

Can You Guess How Many Americans Actually Retire With a Million Bucks?

Saving $1 million (or more) for retirement is a great goal to have. Putting that much aside could make it easier to live your preferred lifestyle when you retire, without having to worry about running short of money. However, not … Continue reading → The post What Percentage of Retirees Have a...

finance.yahoo.com

The Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances tracks retirement savings data for different age groups in the U.S. According to the most recent survey that was completed in 2019, the average retirement savings by age breaks down like this:

• $426,000 for those aged 65 to 74
• $357,000 for those aged 75 and older

As you can see, those numbers are well below the $1 million mark. They represent how much the average person 65 and up have saved in retirement accounts, including 401(k) plans and Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs).

If you look at median figures, the numbers change even more. The median represents the middle number in a group of numbers. The Federal Reserve data shows that 65 to 74-year-olds have a median of $164,000 in their retirement accounts while those 75 and older have $83,000 saved for retirement.


Looks like that "Secret Weapon" is a dud.

That statistic appears to be based on 401K balances which don't include other investments - real estate, CD's, IRA's, bonds, pensions, stock mutual funds, stocks, etc.
Our other investments greatly exceed the 401K amounts which we converted to IRA's shortly after retirement

 

[needvaca]

That statistic appears to be based on 401K balances which don't include other investments - real estate, CD's, IRA's, bonds, pensions, stock mutual funds, stocks, etc.
Our other investments greatly exceed the 401K amounts which we converted to IRA's shortly after retirement

On the flip side, it also doesn’t include Americans who have no 401k at all, which is estimated at about 58 million people.

 

[easyrider]

You will want to triple-check your arithmetic, because it is off by 3 orders of magnitude.

Wouldn't be the first time, lol.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

That statistic appears to be based on 401K balances which don't include other investments - real estate, CD's, IRA's, bonds, pensions, stock mutual funds, stocks, etc.
Our other investments greatly exceed the 401K amounts which we converted to IRA's shortly after retirement

Those stats are based off 401K and IRA accounts. I suspect that that would also include Roth accounts too. These are accounts which the GUBN'T has access to via IRS reporting and is easily categorized.

It does not include brokerage accounts, savings accounts, checking accounts, Savings Bonds and CDs.

Real Estate, while may be included in personal wealth, is not liquid and when it is liquidated, you still need to live someplace else.

 

[Brett]

Those stats are based off 401K and IRA accounts. I suspect that that would also include Roth accounts too. These are accounts which the GUBN'T has access to via IRS reporting and is easily categorized.

It does not include brokerage accounts, savings accounts, checking accounts, Savings Bonds and CDs.

Real Estate, while may be included in personal wealth, is not liquid and when it is liquidated, you still need to live someplace else.

But if it doesn't include pensions and other investments such as mutual funds, stocks, bonds, CD's, and real estate (and REIT's which are liquid) and inheritances
it's not a complete picture.

or maybe the WSJ is wrong or misleading and those lazy millennials are doing all the spending propping up the economy !

 

[easyrider]

Real Estate, while may be included in personal wealth, is not liquid and when it is liquidated, you still need to live someplace else.

Some people have real estate that is separate from their homes as investments. Most people that do this into retirement that own multiple rentals have a sizable monthly cash flow and no debt.

Bill

 

[DrQ]

But if it doesn't include pensions and other investments such as mutual funds, stocks, bonds, CD's, and real estate (and REIT's which are liquid) and inheritances
it's not a complete picture.

or maybe the WSJ is wrong or misleading and those lazy millennials are doing all the spending propping up the economy !

Those are USUALLY held in:

• IRA (Traditional and Roth): tracked by the IRS as retirement
• Brokerage: not tracked by the IRS as retirement
• Discrete Real Estate holdings: not tracked by the IRS as retirement (Passive income)

I don't see vast reserves being held by most retirees to greatly skew those numbers.

Pensions are becoming a relic. In Dallas, the Police and Firefighters pension fund is seriously underfunded. GE shafted its employees on their pensions. I had a pension and I took a lump sum based on the unfavorable payout terms in order to set up survivor benefits for DW. I would suspect that the wealth held in pensions might be in the noise statistically.

 

[Brett]

Those are USUALLY held in:

• IRA (Traditional and Roth): tracked by the IRS as retirement
• Brokerage: not tracked by the IRS as retirement
• Discrete Real Estate holdings: not tracked by the IRS as retirement (Passive income)

I don't see vast reserves being held by most retirees to greatly skew those numbers.

Pensions are becoming a relic. In Dallas, the Police and Firefighters pension fund is seriously underfunded. GE shafted its employees on their pensions. I had a pension and I took a lump sum based on the unfavorable payout terms in order to set up survivor benefits for DW. I would suspect that the wealth held in pensions might be in the noise statistically.

someone is spending!


The WSJ article indicated that boomers /seniors / retirees are spending a lot of money and consequently "helping" the economy


maybe it's true, maybe not

The Economy’s Secret Weapon: Seniors With Money to Spend​

https://www.wsj.com/economy/consumers/us-economy-seniors-spending-money-d9f529c5

.

 

[CO skier]

or maybe the WSJ is wrong

Bingo!

Would not be the first time a journalist wrote a puff piece to fill space when real news is in short supply.

 

[CO skier]

someone is spending!


The WSJ article indicated that boomers /seniors / retirees are spending a lot of money and consequently "helping" the economy


maybe it's true, maybe not

The Economy’s Secret Weapon: Seniors With Money to Spend​

https://www.wsj.com/economy/consumers/us-economy-seniors-spending-money-d9f529c5


View attachment 82562


.

Let's put 2&2 together and run the numbers.

What Does the Average Retiree Have Saved?

The Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances tracks retirement savings data for different age groups in the U.S. According to the most recent survey that was completed in 2019, the average retirement savings by age breaks down like this:

• $426,000 for those aged 65 to 74
• $357,000 for those aged 75 and older

As you can see, those numbers are well below the $1 million mark. They represent how much the average person 65 and up have saved in retirement accounts, including 401(k) plans and Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs).

If you look at median figures, the numbers change even more. The median represents the middle number in a group of numbers. The Federal Reserve data shows that 65 to 74-year-olds have a median of $164,000 in their retirement accounts while those 75 and older have $83,000 saved for retirement.


Looks like that "Secret Weapon" is a dud.

So, very rough back-of-the-envelope calculations $426,000 divided by 25% " Share of household wealth held by adults 70 years or older" would mean that the average "household wealth" in America is $1,704,000. Yeah, sure.

Or use the lower number: $357,000 divided by 25% equals $1,428,000 average "household wealth" in America. Uhhh, no. Credit card debt is higher than it has ever been and waaay too many households have negative household wealth.

Using even the median retirement savings: $164,000 divided by 25% equals $656,000 of "household wealth."

About the only people more math-challenged than journalists, are their editors. They do not bother to ask the very basic question, "Did what I just write make any sense?"

 

[CO skier]

Our other investments greatly exceed the 401K amounts which we converted to IRA's shortly after retirement

IRAs and Roth IRAs are retirement accounts and would have been included in the data analysis along with 401Ks.

 

[CO skier]

In 2021, the median Household Wealth (all sources, not just from retirement savings) was $166,900. 25-26% of that (based on the chart in post #617) means the median level of savings for a retiree household is $42,000 -- for the remainder of their lives. Sad, but true.

 

[Brett]

In 2021, the median Household Wealth (all sources, not just from retirement savings) was $166,900. 25-26% of that (based on the chart in post #617) means the median level of savings for a retiree household is $42,000 -- for the remainder of their lives. Sad, but true.

Bingo!

Would not be the first time a journalist wrote a puff piece to fill space when real news is in short supply.

OK - someone is spending big and "helping" the economy - but not you

Forget Gen Zers and Taylor Swift concerts. It's boomers who are flashing their dollars​

https://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-spending-net-worth-us-economy-recession-2023-10#:~:text=As boomers entered or neared,generations, it was 16.5%.

 

[Icc5]

Account was recently moved from TD Ameritrade to Schwab. With TD when a dividend ck was sent information was also sent that said what company y was paying a dividend.
With Schwab I received a ck but no information. Is this the norm with Schwab? Does anyone else have a problem with this? Considering I have several dividend paying companies this makes no sense to me.
Bart

 

[dago]

Account was recently moved from TD Ameritrade to Schwab. With TD when a dividend ck was sent information was also sent that said what company y was paying a dividend.
With Schwab I received a ck but no information. Is this the norm with Schwab? Does anyone else have a problem with this? Considering I have several dividend paying companies this makes no sense to me.
Bart

I have my $$ with Schwab and rather than cut a check I have my dividends deposited into my cash account with Schwab. I always know who the dividend is from and for how much, as I download the information from Schwab to my accounting software (Quicken). I too have several dividend paying companies (mostly ETF's). Not sure how it works with an actual check.

 

[Ralph Sir Edward]

All ACH driect deposit information was lost in the conversion. You have to re-set it up all over again.