Fires on Maui and in Lahaina

[Kapolei]

Everyone has an opinion to offer. I don’t think our opinions are that important now. Facts are useful, opinions help no one.

 

[klpca]

figured id share a post from this morning of someone ive known quite a long time who lives basically at ground zero.

it hurt to read this.

I don't doubt one word of this. I remember similar stories during our fires in 2003/2007. They will forever live with the trauma that the whole town has been through.

 

[HGVC Lover]

That’s what I don’t get.

It sounds like you don’t want to get it no matter what is said.

 

[dagger1]

It sounds like you don’t want to get it no matter what is said.

Hahaha have a great day!

 

[TimesCalif]

FWIW - just returned from a week at Marriott Ko Olina - on Oahu. Everyone was very pleased to have the resorts full and active tourism. As with all things Hawaiian (and dare I say Any region or country) you just need to be respectful of people and their feelings/beliefs. Hawaii is very much dependent on tourist spending. So if you're not going to the Islands due to the Maui tragedy, send your vacation funds as a donation - but do not just "not go."

 

[dagger1]

We are letting Hyatt Ka’Anapali make our decision. If they are open 9/30, we are going.

 

[Tamaradarann]

was 100% predictable on Day 1. No place I have ever been has more of an us vs them mentality than Maui has. here in NorCal, we have a friend who was born & raised on Maui. He & my wife are good friends. Whenever she ever mentions ANYTHING related to her/us being tourists on Maui, he becomes extremely reticent, almost shuts down. Always has. "Aloha" is great, but Maui has been overwhelmed by tourists for a long time.
I once spent a week on Maui trying to decide if I would move there. Did no touristing. Didn't stay in a tourist spot. Spent time with people I know there and just walking around chatting to people here and there. Decision: NOPE. Too many tourists everywhere. Too much hostility in general. It would be exhausting. Wagons definitely stay circled for a long time now.
I could prob live in Honolulu, seeing as it is a "real" city with many other things going on

Well the whole discussion around over tourism that was on TUG a few months ago has certainly been overshadowed by what has happened to Lahaina. Lahaina and the surrounding area was one of the central focal points of tourism in Maui and now it is gone. It will be interesting in the rebuilding if they are going to be focused on what locals, who have had their homes and businesses displaced want for themselves, or what will attract tourists and bring in touirst dollars. They could rebuild Lahaina with just essential businesses like supermarkets, a shoe repair shop, cleaners, car repair, post offices, a few restaurants, and other businesses essential for living in the Lahaina area. No touristy type businesses. This is a chance to rebuild the way locals want. What do locals want?

 

[Tamaradarann]

Well the whole discussion around over tourism that was on TUG a few months ago has certainly been overshadowed by what has happened to Lahaina. Lahaina and the surrounding area was one of the central focal points of tourism in Maui and now it is gone. It will be interesting in the rebuilding if they are going to be focused on what locals, who have had their homes and businesses displaced want for themselves, or what will attract tourists and bring in touirst dollars. They could rebuild Lahaina with just essential businesses like supermarkets, a shoe repair shop, cleaners, car repair, post offices, a few restaurants, and other businesses essential for living in the Lahaina area. No touristy type businesses. This is a chance to rebuild the way locals want. What do locals want?

I just thought of a few other "necessary" businesses that would be nice in downtown Lahaina. A Fruit and Vegetable Market with only Hawaiian Grown produce, a Butcher with only Hawaiian Raised Meat, a Fish Market with fish and sea food from the Local Waters.

 

[ScoopKona]

What do locals want?

They'll gladly tell you, if asked.

 

[sponger76]

What do locals want?

There is no single answer. Ask a bunch of locals, and you'll get different answers, some conflicting with others. Like anywhere else, they're not a monolithic mindset,

 

[Ken555]

There is no single answer. Ask a bunch of locals, and you'll get different answers, some conflicting with others. Like anywhere else, they're not a monolithic mindset,

And, I doubt they really know yet what they want. They’re still recovering from a tragedy. Not sure why anyone would think they are up for a thoughtful discussion on the future just yet. Based on the various forums I’ve read since the fire it’s clear the locals are still conflicted on whether or not to welcome tourists, and not just a few are believing conspiracy theories about the fire and the numbers of missing people, etc.


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[Tamaradarann]

There is no single answer. Ask a bunch of locals, and you'll get different answers, some conflicting with others. Like anywhere else, they're not a monolithic mindset,

I wasn't looking for a single answer. Since this is the home and businesses of local people how they want to rebuild Lahaina is the priority. However, once the tourist oriented shops start to take over and control the enviroment of Lahaina, it will be rebuilt in the manner that it was; focused on the tourists, attracting the tourists, and making tourist dollars run the show and control the town. When the planning of the rebuilding starts that is when the locals need to control the rebuilding of the town. I gave some suggestions on what type of stores and shops that would make Lahaina more local oriented rather than totally tourist oriented. That doesn't mean that tourists won't be coming to the town, but the town doesn't have to be such a tourist attraction; or does it? I just thought of a few other businesses that would focus on locals: A hardware store, a house plant and garden shop, an appliance store. When rebuilding Lahaina these are stores that are going to be needed in the reestablishment of the town as well as maintaining the town in the future. Of course there will be some dress and shirt shops for the tourists, and certainly restaurants that all will frequent, but the focus doesn't have to be tourists.

 

[Tamaradarann]

They'll gladly tell you, if asked.

I am not involved with the planning so I don't need to ask them. However, if the locals of the homes and businesses don't get their voices out there and are heard and respected in the begining of the planning it will be too late after the tourist oriented money and voices take control. This is an opportunity to make a major change in the direction that you have been espousing on TUG. Perhaps free parking lots for locals and paid parking for tourists is another change that could be put in effect.

 

[jabberwocky]

We recently had an large-scale experiment where only “essential” businesses were allowed to operate. It was an abysmal failure.

Who determines what is a “necessary” business? How many of each of these necessary stores will be allowed?

In my opinion, the best measure of necessity will be whether a business can attract and retain customers. It’s much harder to build up a business and thriving local economy, but easy to prevent or destroy it. Individuals who don’t own property in Lahaina (and this includes those living in other areas of Maui and other islands) really should not be telling those who do what they should be doing. I think local individuals/business will figure this out on their own if they are allowed to do so.

 

[dioxide45]

I think local individuals/business will figure this out on their own if they are allowed to do so.

I am sure local government will have their hands in there with zoning and rezoning.

 

[ScoopKona]

In my opinion, the best measure of necessity will be whether a business can attract and retain customers.

So that means dozens of carbon-copy Mai-tai bars; "art" galleries; and T-shirt shops. Prior to the fire, I heard people say that Lahaina has been going downhill ever since Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. closed down -- that oh-so-Hawaiian-business.

Since there are usually three times as many tourists on that island as residents, everything is going to be skewed 3:1 to service their wants -- as opposed to the residents needs. This is something that Las Vegas gets utterly right. The tourists have their area. And if locals want to go there or work there, they know what that will be like. And if locals want to avoid it, that's easy as well. Tourists don't generally encroach on the residential areas. So it's possible for locals to have some kind of life which isn't always affected by tourism.

For all the things that city does wrong, that's one thing they do better than nearly anyplace else. It's one of the reasons Hawaiians head there if they decide to leave.

 

[davidvel]

In my opinion, the best measure of necessity will be whether a business can attract and retain customers. It’s much harder to build up a business and thriving local economy, but easy to prevent or destroy it. Individuals who don’t own property in Lahaina (and this includes those living in other areas of Maui and other islands) really should not be telling those who do what they should be doing. I think local individuals/business will figure this out on their own if they are allowed to do so.

I generally agree. Everyone is acting as though some overarching homogenous group of "locals" all want the same thing and can and will "decide the future of Lahaina." While they are slowly being eroded, property rights still exist in the country, including Hawaii.

I am sure those that own the land in Lahaina will be very aggressive in protecting their property rights and what can and cannot be built on it.

I am sure local government will have their hands in there with zoning and rezoning.

They may, but owners also have certain vested rights in the existing zoning that may or may not be able to be changed willy-nilly, without just compensation.

While local politicians are already trying to find ways to stop "locals" from selling their land to "non-locals" such restrictions may not pass constitutional muster in the long term.

 

[Tamaradarann]

So that means dozens of carbon-copy Mai-tai bars; "art" galleries; and T-shirt shops. Prior to the fire, I heard people say that Lahaina has been going downhill ever since Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. closed down -- that oh-so-Hawaiian-business.

Since there are usually three times as many tourists on that island as residents, everything is going to be skewed 3:1 to service their wants -- as opposed to the residents needs. This is something that Las Vegas gets utterly right. The tourists have their area. And if locals want to go there or work there, they know what that will be like. And if locals want to avoid it, that's easy as well. Tourists don't generally encroach on the residential areas. So it's possible for locals to have some kind of life which isn't always affected by tourism.

For all the things that city does wrong, that's one thing they do better than nearly anyplace else. It's one of the reasons Hawaiians head there if they decide to leave.

You bring up an excellent question as well as a relevant Las Vegas reference to what I am putting out there. Should Lahaina be the tourist concentration of Maui or West Maui or should it rebuilt to be more for the local people to enjoy. Should it be a Las Vegas Strip, Las Vegas Downtown, Waikiki or should it rebuild more like other towns in Hawaii.

My husband and I spent a week in Kauai in May at a Princeville Timeshare. We visited Hanalai a couple of times and it was so touristy and crowded that we didn't feel comfortable so we didn't spend much time there. We went to the fish market in town and it didn't feel right to us. We picked up some L&L food one time to eat back at our timeshare. We also went to Kapaa a couple of times, which is a tourist town, but it felt more comfortable. We picked up fish a couple of times to cook back in Princeville. (One time we actually drove to Kappa to just pick up some fish since it was so good and a comfortable shop. We are planing on spending more time in the Kapaa area in the future. The point is that there is a difference in tourist towns and tourist areas. Ho touristy and what type of town do the people that had their homes and businesses destroyed by the fire want Lahaina to be?

(By the way one day we wanted to drive further South of Kapaa to attend a music festival in Lahui. The traffic was so bad that we turned around and went back to Kapaa. We have been to South Kauai a number of times before and liked it also since it wasn't as touristy as Lahaina.

 

[JIMinNC]

You bring up an excellent question as well as a relevant Las Vegas reference to what I am putting out there. Should Lahaina be the tourist concentration of Maui or West Maui or should it rebuilt to be more for the local people to enjoy. Should it be a Las Vegas Strip, Las Vegas Downtown, Waikiki or should it rebuild more like other towns in Hawaii.

As @davidvel said, it’s up to the residents AND business owners in Lahaina to decide that. They all don’t speak with one voice. The “make it local voices” will be certainly be heard, but those who own businesses in Lahaina that were burned need to have a voice too. Why should someone who owns a tourist-oriented restaurant or activity company in Lahaina be denied their property rights to rebuild their business? They should have a voice too.

 

[Ken555]

As @davidvel said, it’s up to the residents AND business owners in Lahaina to decide that. They all don’t speak with one voice. The “make it local voices” will be certainly be heard, but those who own businesses in Lahaina that were burned need to have a voice too. Why should someone who owns a tourist-oriented restaurant or activity company in Lahaina be denied their property rights to rebuild their business? They should have a voice too.

Yes. Though I wonder if those businesses which rented will have much of a say, since I assume not all owned the property. This is a rare opportunity for the property owners to change what they do with their land.


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[GoPokes!]

So that means dozens of carbon-copy Mai-tai bars; "art" galleries; and T-shirt shops. Prior to the fire, I heard people say that Lahaina has been going downhill ever since Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. closed down -- that oh-so-Hawaiian-business.

As long as the government doesn't get in the way then economics will drive what gets built. If that means 'carbon-copy Mai-tai bars; "art" galleries; and T-shirt shops', then so be it as that is what the business owner believes his customer wants. Also, what's with the quotation marks for art galleries? Many of the galleries supported local artists. Or is that "artists" to you?

 

[Tamaradarann]

Yes. Though I wonder if those businesses which rented will have much of a say, since I assume not all owned the property. This is a rare opportunity for the property owners to change what they do with their land.


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Well said. There is much anti tourist comments on this site as well as in the media about Hawaii. The tourists certainly do come because there is natural beauty, water and weather in Hawaii. However, they also come because Hawaii welcomes tourist and tourist dollars in so many of the ways the Kamaaina position themselves. That is not a negative comment, it is a realization comment.

Your thought about businesses that rented is profound. The owners of the properties are the ones that need to decide on what they want Lahaina to be. Just as other have said that the people of West Maui don't speak with one voice, Lahaina doesn't have to be rebuilt totally for locals with NO focus on tourists, nor does it have to be rebuilt so tourist oriented. As I mentioned Hanalai seened to be too touirst oriented. Perhaps Lahaina could be rebuilt somewhat less tourist oriented.

One issue that could be expanded upon is how people get to Lahaina. The parking in Lahaina was challenging. Everyone on vacation as well as locals people love to get into their car and drive to things. When we lived on Long Island we did the same thing. However, there is different ways to get to places. The last 2 times we went to Lahaina in September 2022 we got there by bus from Sands of Kahana. It was a very nice pretty quick bus ride, very inexpensive, and no worries about parking or drinking and driving. The negatives were that the bus only came every hour, it stopped around 7:00 PM, and on the last trip back it got very crowded. Having a more frequent schedule and going to say 9 or 10 PM along with limited parking in Lahaina could be a benefit on a number of issues: Less space needed for parking in the rebuilding; less traffic to, from and within Lahaina: less traffic related stress walking around Lahaina, less environment impact of car exhaust, less drinking and driving. As I mentioned previously having free parking for locals and paid for tourists could urge more people to give the bus service a try.

 

[ScoopKona]

Many of the galleries supported local artists. Or is that "artists" to you?

And many of the galleries employed timeshare salespeople. That kind of "art" gallery.

 

[geist1223]

Who are the Locals that should have a say/control over a rebuilt Lahaina? Is it only folks that have 25% or more Hawaiian/Polynesian Blood? Does it include people of Asian Heritage whose families have been in Hawai'i for over 150 years? Does it include Caucasians whose Families have been in Hawai'i for over 100 years. Is it anyone that has a Hawaiian Driver's License, Votes in Hawai'i, and pays Hawaiian State Taxes? It has been a really long time since Lahaina was the Capital of Hawaii. Lahaina has been a Whaling Port and many other things. It has been primarily a Tourist Town for a long time.

 

[geist1223]

And many of the galleries employed timeshare salespeople. That kind of "art" gallery.

We have never had someone in an Art Gallery Pitch Timeshares to us. But then may be in how one define an Art Gallery.