Getting Rid of a Timeshare

[Ridewithme38]

Ride - If hundreds of weeks are dropped on the HOA all at once at your resort, who do you think pays their MF? YOU DO!

You keep talking about this as if this is someone else's problem but YOU own at resorts that you got free or very cheap. That means they have no resale value and that means this could happen to you. Either your maintenance fee is going to increase astronomically, or it will go bankrupt. Are you really OK with it if that happens to the TS's that you own?

The resorts need to find a way to fix the problem...If hundreds of weeks are dropped and maintenance fees increase astronomically ....More people will walk away...The HOA, POA, Nameless corrupt Association, can't afford to have all those people walk away...They will realize that they are screwing up and make the needed changes so they can bring the MF's back down or the resort will close, its really just that simple...If the Nameless corrupt association's are so inept that the only solution they can find to people walking away is to raise MF's, i don't know that i trust them to run anything

Really, if you run a shoe store and find that people aren't shopping in your store anymore because your prices are too high...your solution is to RAISE prices?? Thats rediculous...They CAN lower MF's they just don't because they are either inept or corrupt....In EVERY case, this is true

It's NOT just Maintenance fees either! Its making the resort some place people WANT to go to, even during the off season...I'm sorry but these corrupt nameless associations need to be held accountable....Maybe a few resorts HAVE to close to scare them straight

 

[e.bram]

Boca:
Well said and AMEN!!!

 

[timeos2]

So it sounds like its not that you are against the PCC model itself but you are against the dishonest PCC's that don't do what they say they will do...i.e. you are still owner after paying the money

Why not recommend that people be VERY careful when dealing with a PCC and ONLY pay money once the TS is out of their names?

The thing is, most Timeshares are a sinking ship, what the viking ship model does is make the problem more obvious to the Resort(HOA, POA, any scam Association name)...when suddenly they have hundreds of weeks with no owners...they then have the problem shoved in front of them and are forced to fix it...where as when its gradual like whats happening now, a few dozen facing forclosure a year, they may never realize...and the only steps they take is raise MF's

People are getting out one way or another...IMO its better that it happens in bulk then change might actually happen and these HOA's that are in the corporate pocket, will have to do something except raise MF's

I'm not completely against PCC type operations as there is a true need for a way for people to get out of unwanted timeshares. But there is absolutely no way to verify or assure that any PCC will actually deliver what you think they will. Add in that risk of non-performance with the cost and it's not a good way to go. Applying that same amount of cost - usually less - to giving away your timeshare to another taker that willingly takes over the obligation is a far more effective way to be sure you are no longer responsible. As I said if there was a verifiable group that certified delivery of proper transfer for a reasonable fee I would recommend them. There is no such group today and dealing with any that claim to do the job is placing unwanted risk on the persons paying the fees and wanting to be out of timeshare ownership. It tends to make a bad situation worse not better for all but the PCC in far too many cases.

 

[DeniseM]

Ride - the problem with your theory is 2 fold:

1) By statute, the MF for the abandoned timeshares must be paid by the other owners - there is no other source of income. If a Viking Ship suddenly abandons a large number of deeds at one resort - no matter how well run it is, it would be devastating.

2) You are assuming that it's the management's fault that all these timeshares are going into default and that's just not logical. Many if not most timeshares go into default because of death, divorce, financial problems, lack of interest in timesharing, etc. That is something that is completely out of management's control - they can't change the economy.

Yes, the whole TS community has problems, but adding the Viking Ship model to the mix only creates far worse problems. It's not a solution - it's a cancer.

 

[bogey21]

Just curious. Has anyone offered to pay the HOA 2 or 3 years MFs to accept a deed back? Seems like a safer alternative to giving the $$$$ to a PCC on a wing and a prayer.

George

 

[rrlongwell]

Just curious. Has anyone offered to pay the HOA 2 or 3 years MFs to accept a deed back? Seems like a safer alternative to giving the $$$$ to a PCC on a wing and a prayer.

George

There have been a few references on the Internet that at least one or two did that, but I do not think it was as high as 2 or 3 years. There is at least 1 resort in the Wyndham System I have reason to believe do some form of take back for owners that are past due on a deed back (I will not turn them in on a public forum, at least in this post). They then will sell them to owners or Wyndham. I think Dennis has mention in a least a few (few hundred?) posts, that Tugs offers a method to give away timeshares. If it makes since for a person to pay to get rid of a timeshare, I believe Tugs has managed to help do this successfully through their Bargin Deal sections and if it is given away with some money to the buyer, those appear to be generating interest real quick. I would think this would beat the heck out of an upfront fee that is paid for basically marketing services that may or may not result in a sale. Knowing that you are selling to a group that intends to default could cause secondary problems, under some circumstances, and I do not think that is a great way to go.

As for "As for Viking Ships" The reality may be they exist and for resorts that are a quality product (I hope all of mine are), as a owner, that is better in some ways than each timeshare going to default one at a time. The resort then is free to make a deal with the Viking Ship owners preferably before bankrupcy, to take the properties back and take steps to get them back on the good person roles. For weak resorts, this could very well be a resort going down a fiscally unsound road and would take some creative management to stop that from happening. That is why I am also not a big fan of Vacation Clubs with no deeded ownership.

 

[DeniseM]

We have already established that creating a Viking Ship for the purpose of declaring bankruptcy and abandoning the property is illegal (per the attorneys on this forum) so it is not logical to expect the PCC to go to the resort and say, "Hey, I'm breaking the law, but now I want to do the right thing here and negotiate with you to take these timeshares back into the fold."

Why would a PCC do that? What is their motivation? They already have their money - why would they draw attention to their illegal business practices and get themselves turned into the Attorney General?

If they had any ethics, they wouldn't use this model in the first place. They are in it for one thing and one thing only. They couldn't care less what the outcome it.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Hundreds of TS's are for sale right now on Ebay by PCC's, we can't assume they are all intentially creating LLc or other corporate entities specificly to bankrupt and default on TS weeks, i'm sure there are many that do....But just looking over the for sale ad's on Ebay, not all of them do

So to make a legal case claiming they had planned ahead to specificly default on the weeks, even IF they did plan on doing that...well it would be a hard case to prove ....Almost as hard a case as proving fraud by a Retail Timeshare seller

They are in it for one thing and one thing only. They couldn't care less what the outcome it.

Money, right? Isn't that the same Outcome you are fighting against them about? They're trying to make money by getting people out of Timeshares, your trying to keep your MF's down by keeping people in TS's....Either way its all about money

The question is, which is the more ethical stance? The one that saves someone from losing everything they have worked their life for and leaving their kids homeless and hungry, or the one that ends up saving other TS owners from their fees going up $20 a year....i.e. rob from the rich to keep children from starving to death, or keep the rich even richer, let them buy second planes, while the poor get more poor and suffer the painful death of disgrace and starvation while being homeless

 

[timeos2]

The question is, which is the more ethical stance? The one that saves someone from losing everything they have worked their life for and leaving their kids homeless and hungry, or the one that ends up saving other TS owners from their fees going up $20 a year....i.e. rob from the rich to feed the poor, or keep the rich wealth while the poor get more poor

What if the outcome isn't actually getting that pitiful owner you paint out of the timeshare but merely victimizing them for yet thousands more & leaving them eventually with the ownership,past due fees & other credit hits they thought they had paid big dollars to get away from?

That is unfortunately what is occurring with these corrupt groups. No humanitarian goals but simple greed for money in their pockets. Nevermind who gets hurt in the process as long as they get theirs....

It is not a viable or sensible option for owners and should not be promoted to them in any way by anyone no matter how you feel about timeshares, developers or Associations in general.

 

[Ridewithme38]

What if the outcome isn't actually getting that pitiful owner you paint out of the timeshare but merely victimizing them for yet thousands more & leaving them eventually with the ownership,past due fees & other credit hits they thought they had paid big dollars to get away from?

That is the very reason we should be promoting the HONEST PCC's, the ones that actually do as they say...If take a cab in Manhattan and see the driver adding time to the meter...Do you start a campaign to demand all Cab Drivers in Manhattan are thieves and liers or do you accepted that, just like with people there are good apples and bad apples?

Not all PCC's are thieves to judge them all as such, even with so many selling TS's on Ebay is an unfair characterization....How could so many be for sale by them if they NEVER follow through? How could Viking Ships exist if they don't take the TS out of the owners name? Sure there are bad apples, there are bad apples in any business, BUT, since we are one of the Primere TS forums around, we should be spotlighting the good ones so people know what to do when there is No other choice

 

[DeniseM]

BUT, since we are one of the Primere TS forums around, we should be spotlighting the good ones so people know what to do when there is No other choice

Ride - TUG has no research Dept., in fact we have no paid staff at all. So would you please research this topic and post a list of reputable PCC's that treat both the OWNER and the RESORT and the TRANSFER ethically and legally?

 

[Ridewithme38]

Ride - TUG has no research Dept., in fact we have no paid staff at all. So would you please research this topic and post a list of reputable PCC's that treat both the OWNER and the RESORT and the TRANSFER ethically and legally?

I can't even think of a RETAIL Timeshare Company that does that! Really, IMO, as long as what is stated is what happens...They say they are to get you out of your contract, they get you out of your contract....When it comes to a family loosing they're jobs, home, car, life, more homeless on the streets....I'll pay $5 more a year so a child doesn't have to starve on the streets

I believe there is a thread on the other Timeshare forum that talks about a TS company that did exactly what they said they would do...Alot of PCC's have signed on here and said that they will accept money face to face as the deed is signed over, but i believe they've been banned

 

[timeos2]

I can't even think of a RETAIL Timeshare Company that does that! Really, IMO, as long as what is stated is what happens...They say they are to get you out of your contract, they get you out of your contract....When it comes to a family loosing they're jobs, home, car, life, more homeless on the streets....I'll pay $5 more a year so a child doesn't have to starve on the streets

That's one big reason the fairly standard mantra here (and other TS boards) is NEVER BUY RETAIL TIMESHARE.

No inconsistencies there. We don't say to buy the often misrepresented retail timeshare and we are equally strong that PCC's overall cannot be trusted and thus should not be recommended.

As Denise says if/when someone somewhere comes up with a verifiable list of ANY PCC's that are actually reliable and do the proper thing for both the owners and resorts I'll bet we'll be behind them 100% as a legitimate option. As of now there is no such names - even past performance is zero promise of future actions. There are no ways to guarantee or even monitor the performance of these nearly always questionable groups.

Meanwhile - DO NOT DEAL WITH PCC'S or any group merely mouthing empty promises to "relieve you of your resort/annual fees". 99.9% likelihood they are merely going to take your cash and you will still be the owner of the week you no longer want and liable for the fees. Period. End of story.

 

[malonem68]

The timeshare I am in the process of closing now cost the seller nothing out of pocket. She wan't out of her timeshare and I want in it. I offered to pay around $200 to close it and she will be out of her obligation.

I understand that maybe she is one of the lucky ones, but it can be done.

 

[Ridewithme38]

As Denise says if/when someone somewhere comes up with a verifiable list of ANY PCC's that are actually reliable

Donate for a Cause has shown no indication Not to be a reliable PCC, heck alot of us that bought off ebay bought off them

http://www.timeshareforums.com/foru...-area/123204-working-dfc-donating-our-ts.html

Meanwhile - DO NOT DEAL WITH PCC'S or any group merely mouthing empty promises to "relieve you of your resort/annual fees". 99.9% likelihood they are merely going to take your cash and you will still be the owner of the week you no longer want and liable for the fees. Period. End of story.

Can you backup the 99.9% figure? Because i have seen many posts of companies that have followed through with what they have promised...They of course have been banned immediately and claimed they are lies...I'd say based on the three Timeshare forums i visit on a regular basis that is much closer to 70%...PERIOD, END OF STORY![Name calling deleted - DeniseM Moderator]

 

[timeos2]

Donate for a Cause has shown no indication Not to be a reliable PCC, heck alot of us that bought off ebay bought off them

http://www.timeshareforums.com/foru...-area/123204-working-dfc-donating-our-ts.html




Can you backup the 99.9% figure? Because i have seen many posts of companies that have followed through with what they have promised...They of course have been banned immediately and claimed they are lies...I'd say based on the three Timeshare forums i visit on a regular basis that is much closer to 70%......[Name calling deleted - DeniseM Moderator]!

No, unfortunately my percentage estimate is based on actual owner reports at multiple resorts. We hear at least weekly of actual owners scammed by these groups and in over 3 years of monitoring. There has been only one known transfer as promised and even that was an eBay resale not a timely transfer out of the owners name. Had that sale not occurred they too would have got nothing for their thousands paid.

Don't try to deal with these groups. Thats the true end of fact based story.

 

[Beefnot]

Preach, Ride, preach. You raised some inherent biases that many, including myself, may not realize they have on how they process their thoughts on the issue. And the practice of banning PCCs from participating in any meaningful way on TUG--even if it were in a separate sub-forum--seems kind of wack.

 

[DeniseM]

This is simply not true - PCC's are NOT banned unless they violate the TUG posting rules. Most of the ones that have been banned came to TUG as shills, pretending to be satisfied customers, and were "outted." Others registered with a commercial user name. Some openly promoted their company on TUG. Others out right lied when directly asked about their business model.

Do you really want TUG to be a free-for-all for the PCC's? I think not!

Here's an example: Donate for a Cause (mentioned above) has been a long-time member of TUG. I do not agree with all of their business practices, but their owner's posts on TUG follows the TUG guidelines, so they have not been banned.

 

[rrlongwell]

Why not creat a limit time thread and let the oppossing views present their cases as long as all participates are properly identifying themselves. This would require a one time exception to the rules to permit the firms to identify themselves. The rules would also permit the right of anyone interested in telling stories about them without fear of repercusions. "Let the Games Begin".

 

[DeniseM]

Why not creat a limit time thread and let the oppossing views present their cases as long as all participates are properly identifying themselves. This would require a one time exception to the rules to permit the firms to identify themselves. The rules would also permit the right of anyone interested in telling stories about them without fear of repercusions. "Let the Games Begin".

Because it violates the TUG posting rules. Why in the world would you want to give scammers a voice? Do you really think they are going to tell the truth??? Look at the posts from the guy I just banned. He gets rid of timeshares using the Viking Ship model - but would he admit it even when asked directly? Of course not! Bad idea.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Others out right lied when directly asked about their business model.

.

This is based on your opinion of their business model, not on what their business model actually is

 

[DeniseM]

This is based on your opinion of their business model, not on what their business model actually is

Really? Lies are based on opinion? If I ask you a direct question and you lie, that's my opinion?

 

[Ridewithme38]

No it's not - it's based on a poster claiming to have one business model - when the facts show that they have another. Not opinion.

Must have missed that one...Do you have a link?

 

[ronparise]

Ride...you are not alone...I think the PCCs provide a needed service: providing a means for owners to sell their unwanted timeshares.

The fact that there may be some crooks among these companies doesnt change the fact that the service is needed.

We all benefit by what they do which is to move a timeshare from someone that doesnt want it and likely will stop paying maintenance fees to someone that will pay those fees

 

[DeniseM]

Must have missed that one...Do you have a link?

Resort Bailouts - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160335

1) Registered with a commercial user name
2) Self-promotion
3) Lied about not using a Viking Ship
4) Re-registered twice after being banned
5) Shill - 3rd registration