Mexico Safety & City Guides for Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, Playa del Carmen, Acapulco, Mazatlan, Cancun, Zihuatenejo/Ixtapa

[DebBrown]

siesta, thanks for the link. I hadn't seen that article.

I found info about the different shootings on the Mazatlan english language news site at : http://mazmessenger.com/category/news/local-news/

Deb

 

[timeos2]

Personal choice - no Mexico for our family

For me, the problem with this paragraph is that it is misleading. Mexico is a huge country; people visit tourist areas not just Mexico. The crime rate in Juarez is sky high, my bet it is very low in Cabo. I would hate someone not to visit Cabo because of the crime rate elsewhere; it is unfair to the people in that really nice part of Mexico. Personally, whenever I see this type of post, i will always challenge it, but it should end there: one opinion and an opposing opinion.

Mike

My daughter, who has traveled the world (unlike myself who gets nervous in going through a "southern sheriff" type county!) absolutely refuses to even visit Mexico! We have been in California a number of times and talked of a train trip over the border even for just a day and she absolutely, in no uncertain terms, refused to go and begged us not to go without her.

Since she is far more experienced than me (Europe, Australia, Japan, Soviet Union, Greece, South Africa & more "even" New Orleans - one of our best trips ever when she got to be onstage at the House of Blues playing as a guest guitarist for her favorite group!) if she wasn't comfortable even crossing the border then I'm not either. From what I hear it's a nice place to see/ visit (at last the touristy sections) but I doubt we'll ever do it now. May be our loss but I'm not going to upset my daughter just to say we did it. Plenty of other great places to visit - we'll never get to all of them anyway. Mexico won't be one.

 

[mikenk]

The problem on all these Mexico safety threads regarding tourist areas (including mine) is that they are really based on opinion, personal biases, isolated incidents, but rarely really on facts. Your daughter has her experiences; I also travel the world on business and my conclusions are quite different. We all make our own judgements and move on.

We all know Mexico has a drug cartel problem and high violence in those areas - no question. We also know that about 20 million tourists visit Mexico a year; that's the safety issue we really care about from a personal perspective. What is the crime rate against those 20 million and against the large number of Americans living across Mexico; more importantly, what is it in the tourist areas? My guess it is minuscule but I haven't seen real statistics. To me that is what is really important. Does anyone have a pointer to statistical data on this?

Certainly, regardless what the statistics say, people will still make their own choices based on whatever reasons; that is there prerogative, but it would be nice to see some real statistical data.

Mike

 

[John Cummings]

It is not possible to get meaningful data on crime in Mexico. The vast majority of crime goes unreported except for murder.

 

[ondeadlin]

As I've said before, the official crime stats compiled and released by the government of Mexico show it has violent and property crime rates below Ireland and Japan.

As John said, the stats are not meaningful at all.

 

[John Cummings]

This post is just so I will get the e-mail alert. When the thread was moved, I was no longer subscribed to this thread.

 

[mikenk]

I respectfully disagree. Any safety discussions not based on statistical data is just pure conjecture. I don't believe that crime against American (or other nation's) tourists will ever go unreported. Do I believe that crime against Mexican nationals could be unreported - sure, I believe that - but against U.S. citizens - doesn't make sense to me.

I would like to see real data on how many tourists to Mexico were murdered in all of Mexico last year and then in each tourist city? Somebody has that data - my bet it is very, very small.

Mike

 

[Karen G]

I would like to see real data on how many tourists to Mexico were murdered in all of Mexico last year and then in each tourist city? Somebody has that data - my bet it is very, very small.

I posed the question on Ask.com asking about 2010. This is the answer I got, though the best answer, according to Ask.com, was for 2009 and only for Mazatlan.

 

[beach.bar.bob]

I posed the question on Ask.com asking about 2010. This is the answer I got, though the best answer, according to Ask.com, was for 2009 and only for Mazatlan.

Great link...

For a little levity at the expense of a clearly serious subject try this video clip I ran into while reviewing the Cabo sticky - from the Gringo Gazette TV website:
gringogazette.tv/allvideos/safety_in_mexico.html

Note ... you will need to add www. in front of this link...I could only post a broken link for some reason.

Safe travels.

bbb

 

[buceo]

And thanks for that link bbb, just perfect.

 

[John Cummings]

I respectfully disagree. Any safety discussions not based on statistical data is just pure conjecture. I don't believe that crime against American (or other nation's) tourists will ever go unreported. Do I believe that crime against Mexican nationals could be unreported - sure, I believe that - but against U.S. citizens - doesn't make sense to me.

I would like to see real data on how many tourists to Mexico were murdered in all of Mexico last year and then in each tourist city? Somebody has that data - my bet it is very, very small.

Mike

I agree that a tourists chances of being murdered in Mexico is very unlikely. Yes, murder is reported. However, other crimes like robbery, assault, etc. are very seldom reported for either tourists or nationals. Tourists may report it but it never goes any farther and seldom is investigated. Therefore these crimes never go into the statistics. The Mexican Nationals know this so they don't even bother reporting it all.

This is not here-say. I have discussed this with many Mexican friends in law enforcement. My brother in law's compadre, who is a friend of mine, was the Attorney General of the state of Sinaloa. Mazatlan is in Sinaloa. He and others have told me that they simply don't pay attention to it. I have discussed this with many others in Cancun, La Paz, and other areas.

You can believe it if you want. It doesn't make any difference to me one way or the other.

 

[ondeadlin]

I posed the question on Ask.com asking about 2010. This is the answer I got, though the best answer, according to Ask.com, was for 2009 and only for Mazatlan.

Completely unsubstantiated stats from an anonymous poster calling himself "playa dude"?

Unfortunately, that's hardly something that could be considered a reliable answer.

 

[mikenk]

Unfortunately, that's hardly something that could be considered a reliable answer.

I agree until the data is validated - my guess it is pretty close and certainly seems a better answer to me than most of what i hear on this thread.

 

[buceo]

You can believe it if you want. It doesn't make any difference to me one way or the other.

I think we all collect information from many sources. First hand information from people we know who are there and our own experiences probably have the most influence. What somebody tells somebody who doesn't go there themselves would play less of a role. Please ask the Attorney General to post first hand what he thinks about visiting the resort areas in MX, that would be very interesting.

As to the "hardly something that could be considered a reliable" I think that was posted by a person living in Playa del Carmen and referenced a Houston Chronicle article. That's not bad.

 

[John Cummings]

I think we all collect information from many sources. First hand information from people we know who are there and our own experiences probably have the most influence. What somebody tells somebody who doesn't go there themselves would play less of a role. Please ask the Attorney General to post first hand what he thinks about visiting the resort areas in MX, that would be very interesting.

As to the "hardly something that could be considered a reliable" I think that was posted by a person living in Playa del Carmen and referenced a Houston Chronicle article. That's not bad.

I will definitely NOT ask him to past anything. Don't you understand that somebody in his position cannot publicize that information.

Other than murder, crimes that are reported just get tossed as soon as you walk out the door whether you are a tourist or not.

My relationship with Mexico is much different than the others posting on this forum. My relationship goes back some 47 years ago when my wife and I were married in Culiacán Sinaloa. My wife is Mexican and most of her family still lives there. I am very close to my wife's family. My wife now has dual Mexican/US citizenship. I met her brother in Mazatlan when I was visiting there and he invited me to their home in Culiacán where I met my wife. We were married a few months later and then lived there for 4 years. Mexico was very peaceful and safe then. By the way we are still very happily married after 47 years.

I am fluent in Spanish, worked in Vera Cruz Mexico, founded a business in Mexico, taught Mexican culture classes to people wanting to do business in Mexico, participated in the UCSD Mexico Connect program for doing business in Mexico. I have traveled over a lot of the country. Our son played semi-professional baseball in Mexico and was on the Mexican All Star teams that competed in the International Olympic Baseball Tournaments in La Paz and Jalisco in 1993 and 1994.

I know the former former Governor of Baja California very well as we did business together. I also know the former state attorney for Baja California Sur ( La Paz ) from our son playing baseball there. I also have many other Mexican friends in various positions. In the past few years the Mexican crime issue has been a common topic of conversation among us as the Mexicans are far more concerned about it than anybody posting on this forum. It affects their lives as well as the economy. Tourism is the 4th largest source of income after: money sent by Mexicans living in the US to their families in Mexico, Drug business, and Petroleum Exports. They obviously don't want any negative publicity about crime affecting tourism.

The drug cartels get all the publicity but actually crime started spiraling upward after the economic crisis in December 1994 when the peso was devalued 50% in 1 day. This was a terrible shock to the social fabric of the country.

We also have spent 20 weeks at timeshares in Cancun, Riviera Maya, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, and Nuevo Vallarta. We have also visited Cabo San Lucas. Our most recent tourist trip was in 2009. We have also visited many times since then for family visits. When we are in Mexico, we only associate with the Mexican people. We have many friends that are Mexican tourists, Resort employees, and locals and the subject of crime is often discussed.

Sorry for the long bio but some people complain about people posting that don't have any experience with Mexico.

Institutionalized corruption has always been a problem in Mexico but it is much worse now because of the drug cartels. There is so much money involved and the cartels are terrorizing the police and politicians right up to the top.

Having said all this, people can choose to believe it or not. That is their prerogative. the chances are that nothing will happen as long as you don't go off exploring on your own in unfamiliar areas. Heck my son ended up in a pile of trouble in British Columbia Canada because he roamed by accident into an area controlled by the Drug cartels there.

I have been in downtown Detroit and East St, Louis and nothing happened to me so I suppose I can assume that they are safe. However we know that is not true.

 

[mikenk]

Since murders are recorded, then it would seem that the available data shows a minuscule number of murders of tourists and Americans.

John's point is that outside of capital crimes, there is very little reporting of general crime such as robbery and such; therefore data doesn't exist. He validates that with his discussion with Mexican politicians. Well let's be honest, there is also a lot of petty thefts that go unreported I bet in the USA as well as politicians whose goals are to reduce crime but also keep the data hidden.

Well, we go to Mexico 3 or 4 times a year and frequently talk to Mexican Nationals and Americans living there as we love mingling with the locals - especially on Sunday evenings. They are not politicians just people who are open and engaging - I hear no indication of this crime wave in the cities we go to.

I also see very little, if any, traffic on all of these Mexico websites about escalating petty crime affecting them. We certainly have not seen any indication of it.

IMO, in the absence of real statistical data, this thread will go on forever based on opinions and here-say. That is fine as it gives everyone the right to judge for themselves without actually seeing for themselves.

Mike

 

[ondeadlin]

Well, if you want to decide murders are the most reliable statistic, that's clearly where Mexico suffers most. It is ranked 6th in murders-per-capita among 62 nations listed by nationmaster.com

# 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
# 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
# 3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
# 4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
# 5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
# 6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Personally, I'm still not sure I put any stock in the statistics. That's not to say I think they're higher or lower, just that I'm not sure they're reliable.

 

[mikenk]

My guess those are reliable but in my opinion the wrong statistics. The meaningful data would be murder and crime against tourists and Americans across Mexico and within the tourist areas. At 20 million folks a year visiting, that is plenty of people for statistical conclusions.

Mike

 

[John Cummings]

Well let's be honest, there is also a lot of petty thefts that go unreported I bet in the USA as well as politicians whose goals are to reduce crime but also keep the data hidden.

Well, we go to Mexico 3 or 4 times a year and frequently talk to Mexican Nationals and Americans living there as we love mingling with the locals - especially on Sunday evenings. They are not politicians just people who are open and engaging - I hear no indication of this crime wave in the cities we go to.
Mike

I am not talking about petty theft. I am talking about armed robbery, assaults, and other serious crimes.

Talking to Mexican Nationals and Americans living there mean nothing. Are you fluent in Spanish and are they friends of yours? They are not going to tell you what is really going on unless you know them very well, because like you, they have a vested interest. The people I talk to are very good friends of mine as well as talking with my relatives.

In any event it really doesn't matter to me if you want to be delusional. There is a very serious crime problem in Mexico.

You will be reasonably safe at the resorts.

 

[John Cummings]

Well, if you want to decide murders are the most reliable statistic, that's clearly where Mexico suffers most. It is ranked 6th in murders-per-capita among 62 nations listed by nationmaster.com



http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Personally, I'm still not sure I put any stock in the statistics. That's not to say I think they're higher or lower, just that I'm not sure they're reliable.

That is pretty interesting about Venezuela. I lived in Venezuela for 2 years from 1978-1980. I was the service and sales manager for a computer company there. Venezuela was pretty dangerous then but it appears to have gotten worse.

 

[mikenk]

I am not talking about petty theft. I am talking about armed robbery, assaults, and other serious crimes.

Talking to Mexican Nationals and Americans living there mean nothing. Are you fluent in Spanish and are they friends of yours? They are not going to tell you what is really going on unless you know them very well, because like you, they have a vested interest. The people I talk to are very good friends of mine as well as talking with my relatives.

In any event it really doesn't matter to me if you want to be delusional. There is a very serious crime problem in Mexico.

You will be reasonably safe at the resorts.

I do not believe armed robbery and assaults against Americans will ever go unreported. If not there, certainly here. In fact will be sensationalized by our media. I think these crimes against Americans is very low - but again neither of us really has the data.

I also disagree and actually feel my sources are just as credible as yours as knowing what is really going. Actually, stating that talking to people living there means nothing is actually an amazing statement.

Thinking that walking around downtown Cabo is more dangerous then downtown parts of almost all American cities is hardly delusional.

Somehow, BBB's post #84 comes to mind at this point.

Just my opinion,
Mike

 

[John Cummings]

I do not believe armed robbery and assaults against Americans will ever go unreported. If not there, certainly here. In fact will be sensationalized by our media. I think these crimes against Americans is very low - but again neither of us really has the data.

I also disagree and actually feel my sources are just as credible as yours as knowing what is really going. Actually, stating that talking to people living there means nothing is actually an amazing statement.

Thinking that walking around downtown Cabo is more dangerous then downtown parts of almost all American cities is hardly delusional.

Somehow, BBB's post #84 comes to mind at this point.

Just my opinion,
Mike

You are welcome to believe what you want. Cabo is an exception because it is isolated from the mainland. Like I said, you have a vested interest in Mexico because you own there.

In any event, I am done with this discussion. There is nothing more to say. People can believe what they want. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[buceo]

It's perfectly reasonable to own a MX week and post on the MX board, that's what this board is for. In my opinion that makes more sense than declaring one will never go to MX again and still post repeatedly post on this site.

Thank you for allowing us think what we want; yes that's sarcasm.

I won't even address the "ignorance" claim.

 

[mikenk]

In any event, I am done with this discussion. There is nothing more to say. People can believe what they want. Ignorance is bliss.

I Absolutely agree with both statements, but probably not the way you meant it.

Just to clarify, my defense of Mexico has nothing to do that i own there: I love the people, the culture, and feel that they are maligned unfairly. The pure exuberance of joining the families on the malecon in Puerto Vallarta enjoying their day is great fun. I hate that people will not experience it because of unwarranted fears.

Mike

 

[CatLovers]

Talking to Mexican Nationals and Americans living there mean nothing.

Actually, stating that talking to people living there means nothing is actually an amazing statement.

LOL. Mike, we don't always agree but I must admit I see the irony.

In any event it really doesn't matter to me if you want to be delusional. There is a very serious crime problem in Mexico.

You are welcome to believe what you want. ... There is nothing more to say. People can believe what they want. Ignorance is bliss.

Wow! That comes across as pretty condescending. Did you mean it that way? Perhaps we can acknowledge that there are several people on TUG who are able to offer valid experience and insights about Mexico?