MVC not taking Hyatt/Welk under its umbrella

[nuwermj]

..., but maintenance was the other issue. Cobwebs were in the corners of the bathrooms and living room, at the floor and ceiling levels. Internet wasn't working and we were told to keep rebooting the router within the unit and it still did not work. We were fighting with them over the internet issue and ran out of gas. We were still working and that would have been at least 6 years ago. ...

We've been owners since the 1980s and maintenance has been getting worse and worse over the last 10 to 15 years. I think the new owners have better maintenance practices and I'm hoping they will improve what Welk was doing.

 

[dioxide45]

Ultimately it is the HOA and BOD that makes the decisions about renovations. Are they willing to spend what is needed to get things up to par or just let themselves get cut loose?

 

[nuwermj]

Ultimately it is the HOA and BOD that makes the decisions about renovations. Are they willing to spend what is needed to get things up to par or just let themselves get cut loose?

Welk controlled who was elected to the HOA and the Association does what the developer wants. There is no independence.

 

[dioxide45]

Welk controlled who was elected to the HOA and the Association does what the developer wants. There is no independence.

Even at an old resort like Palm Desert? If so, why hasn't Welk already worked to improve this property?

 

[nuwermj]

Even at an old resort like Palm Desert? If so, why hasn't Welk already worked to improve this property?

I've never been to Welk's Desert Oasis in Cathedral City. There are 162 units and the points trust owns two-thirds of the intervals. Welk clearly controls the HOA.

Many members of the points club say the units they stayed in are as nice as the San Diego units. I also know there are many reviewers who didn't like their stay at the resort. I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy of opinion. The resort property has its limits. There are only one-bedroom units and the complex was built as an apartment building that Welk converted to timeshare.

 

[PerryKing]

I think It would be nice for us if the Hyatt Hotels Corporation would just buy back the Hyatt Residence Club also !

Don't you think so also ??

 

[RunCat]

When Diamond (DRI) started buying up small resorts and independants, they started increasing MFs to bring resorts up to better standards. I suspect some level of improvements will be born by the owners (because they will benefit from the better accommodations) and also by the developer. For sold out resorts, I suspect most if not all costs will be covered by owners. If owners don't like it, they can go independant. They don't need to stay with Welk/Hyatt. The decision is up to the BOD.

Going to address a lot of points that were made:
a) For the vast majority of the properties there is one BOD since the properties are owned by a Trust. I am not sure how easy it would be to have a resort go independent since all of them are collectively owned. I've heard that 75% of all ownership in with points in the Trust.
Welk Villas, Palm Desert and VOG do have a smaller BOD for those units that are still in the weeks program. Note: weeks owners do not have the ability to "exchange" within the Welk system. The weeks owners can only book at their own resort; either fixed or flex.

b) Agree with the assessment made earlier about the quality of the resorts. Palm Springs is the ugly duckling. But lots of people still like it and use it. But I am not a fan. When I was in Escondido in March, many of the "older" units were undergoing interior upgrades. The VOG units the same. And I agree with one of the other Welk owners that noted that maintenance in Escondido has not been very good for awhile. Chipped paint and rust can be seen on some of the exterior area. Some of the interiors were quite dated. Welk over the past 2-3 years seems to have put more effort keeping things better.

c) About Hyatt Northstar vs Welk Northstar. A handful of the Hyatt Northstar units were sold prior to Welk's purchase. An offer was made to buy them out which some owners did; others stayed within the Hyatt system. As part of the purchase, there were two parcels that were already zoned for the expansion. There are a total of three buildings. Only the "older" bldg has Hyatt owners.

d) re: The Experience Resorts: those are listed in the Platinum program documentation and are in the Trust.

e) Welk is still selling points. Prices are down slightly from what they were pre-Covid.

f) It will be quite interesting to see how the ownership perks are merged. Members with "higher" point values have the opportunity to book as many as 22 months in advance. (Granted, only a limited inventory is made available or else, I suspect, all of the prime times will be filled). General reservations can be made at 15 months.

g) Agree that Welk will be HPP. Northstar, Cabo, Breckenridge, Branson, Mountain Villas in Escondido can only be accessed, within the Welk system, via points. As I alluded to above, weeks owners do not have access to these resorts nor the "Experience Collection" within the Welk system.

h) from my understanding, Welk had a very large number of points that were unsold. Not sure if swapping could take place to remove a resort or remove the Experience Resorts. (https://thecollection.welkresorts.com)

Been an owner with Welk for 20+ years. And have been, in general, quite happy with them.

 

[RunCat]

We've been owners since the 1980s and maintenance has been getting worse and worse over the last 10 to 15 years. I think the new owners have better maintenance practices and I'm hoping they will improve what Welk was doing.

I have seen improvements since 2018. I was last at Escondido in March and will be back again in November. The past few times I have been there I have seen major upgrade work being performed in all of the units. When I was there in July '20, we had an issue with the shower because a contractor left a towel in the shower drain. It was an issue that I did not mind, since upgrades were obviously taking place.

 

[RunCat]

I've never been to Welk's Desert Oasis in Cathedral City. There are 162 units and the points trust owns two-thirds of the intervals. Welk clearly controls the HOA.

Many members of the points club say the units they stayed in are as nice as the San Diego units. I also know there are many reviewers who didn't like their stay at the resort. I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy of opinion. The resort property has its limits. There are only one-bedroom units and the complex was built as an apartment building that Welk converted to timeshare.

I was in Desert Oasis in Dec 2019. At the time, they looked quite dated. Also there is not a washer/dryer in the room. It is also not as "high-end" as the newer resorts; which may be part of the problem. Cabo, Northstar and Breckenridge are, IMO, much better. But, nothing that $$ can't fix.

 

[dioxide45]

a) For the vast majority of the properties there is one BOD since the properties are owned by a Trust. I am not sure how easy it would be to have a resort go independent since all of them are collectively owned. I've heard that 75% of all ownership in with points in the Trust.
Welk Villas, Palm Desert and VOG do have a smaller BOD for those units that are still in the weeks program. Note: weeks owners do not have the ability to "exchange" within the Welk system. The weeks owners can only book at their own resort; either fixed or flex.

While they are collectively owned, each resort is still an independant HOA. You can't have an HOA span multiple resorts in multiple states. So there would be an HOA at each resort with a BOD. Then there is a trust that either owns individual weeks at the resorts or whole units. Then that trust likely has a BOD that does get a vote in each of the "independent" HOAs for each resort. Unless there is some type of corporation ownership over all the resorts and they offer shares instead of deeds to the timeshare buyer, each resort is indeed separate and can be dropped off as independants.

 

[RunCat]

While they are collectively owned, each resort is still an independant HOA. You can't have an HOA span multiple resorts in multiple states. So there would be an HOA at each resort with a BOD. Then there is a trust that either owns individual weeks at the resorts or whole units. Then that trust likely has a BOD that does get a vote in each of the "independent" HOAs for each resort. Unless there is some type of corporation ownership over all the resorts and they offer shares instead of deeds to the timeshare buyer, each resort is indeed separate and can be dropped off as independants.

Per the DRE for CA, the Welk Resorts Platinum Program is a multi-location, points-based, time-share use plan with a nonspecific time-share interest. There are a total of 4 Owner's Associations: Platinum Owners, Resort Villas, Villas at the Welk Resort, and Desert Oasis. Thus as you described, the Platinum owners are share owners in the Trust. The other owners are deeded at the individual resort.

 

[nuwermj]

h) from my understanding, Welk had a very large number of points that were unsold. Not sure if swapping could take place to remove a resort or remove the Experience Resorts. (https://thecollection.welkresorts.com)

Yes, resorts or parts of resorts can be withdrawn from the trust and the Platinum Program. Here are some of the statements from the governing documents.

From the Public Offering:
"The Association has the power to deannex (remove) Resort Accommodations from the timeshare plan and to thereafter sell the deannexed Resort Accommodations, or to substitute Resort Accommodations. Deannexation may occur if the Association determines the Resort Accommodations to be substandard, or damaged beyond reasonable repair, or if the holder of a blanket encumbrance forecloses on some of the inventory, and determines that the foreclosed inventory is not needed to support the number of outstanding points. No deannexation or substitution may occur which would cause the number of Points outstanding to exceed the maximum permissible number of Points allowed under the time-share plan unless and until The Program has acquired or created such additional Points or canceled a sufficient number of Points to bring the inventory of authorized Points into balance with the number of Points outstanding."

For example, in the case of Desert Oasis the Public Offering acknowledges:
"In the event that the sublease for these intervals is not extended when the current term expires on September 13, 2061, the Association would be obligated to maintain its one-to-one purchaser to accommodation ratio, pursuant to Section 4.2(c) of the Declaration, by either substituting new inventory for the removed inventory, or terminating a sufficient number of non-issued Points to make up for the loss of the Desert Oasis by Welk Resorts inventory, to bring the inventory back into balance with the outstanding number of Points."

And, Section 4.2(c) from the Master Declaration:
"Substitution of Ownerships. To substitute Ownerships, through the annexation of newly dedicated Resort Accommodations, and either (i) the deannexation of previously dedicated Resort Accommodations, or (ii) the expiration of the use terms of Resort Accommodations whose terms are for less than perpetuity, ass the Board may determine to be in the best interest of the Association, so long as the balance of Ownership and Points outstanding is maintained before and after such substitution. The Association shall not be obligated to dedicate substitute Resort Accommodation to the extent it holds sufficient nonissued Points which it then cancels to make up for the loss of any Resort Accommodations which are either deannexed or for which the applicable use terms, if less than perpetuity, have expired."

 

[RunCat]

Yes, resorts or parts of resorts can be withdrawn from the trust and the Platinum Program. Here are some of the statements from the governing documents.

From the Public Offering:
"The Association has the power to deannex (remove) Resort Accommodations from the timeshare plan and to thereafter sell the deannexed Resort Accommodations, or to substitute Resort Accommodations. Deannexation may occur if the Association determines the Resort Accommodations to be substandard, or damaged beyond reasonable repair, or if the holder of a blanket encumbrance forecloses on some of the inventory, and determines that the foreclosed inventory is not needed to support the number of outstanding points. No deannexation or substitution may occur which would cause the number of Points outstanding to exceed the maximum permissible number of Points allowed under the time-share plan unless and until The Program has acquired or created such additional Points or canceled a sufficient number of Points to bring the inventory of authorized Points into balance with the number of Points outstanding."

For example, in the case of Desert Oasis the Public Offering acknowledges:
"In the event that the sublease for these intervals is not extended when the current term expires on September 13, 2061, the Association would be obligated to maintain its one-to-one purchaser to accommodation ratio, pursuant to Section 4.2(c) of the Declaration, by either substituting new inventory for the removed inventory, or terminating a sufficient number of non-issued Points to make up for the loss of the Desert Oasis by Welk Resorts inventory, to bring the inventory back into balance with the outstanding number of Points."

And, Section 4.2(c) from the Master Declaration:
"Substitution of Ownerships. To substitute Ownerships, through the annexation of newly dedicated Resort Accommodations, and either (i) the deannexation of previously dedicated Resort Accommodations, or (ii) the expiration of the use terms of Resort Accommodations whose terms are for less than perpetuity, ass the Board may determine to be in the best interest of the Association, so long as the balance of Ownership and Points outstanding is maintained before and after such substitution. The Association shall not be obligated to dedicate substitute Resort Accommodation to the extent it holds sufficient nonissued Points which it then cancels to make up for the loss of any Resort Accommodations which are either deannexed or for which the applicable use terms, if less than perpetuity, have expired."

Yep. . . . read the same thing.

 

[dannybaker]

We own three weeks two bedroom lock off units at Villas on the green in Escondido. We currently deposit them in RCI or II. I would imagine not much would change. RCI has really turned our weeks into crap and we’re paying about $32 dollars per tpu. Maintenance fees are higher than my Marriott units and an additional state tax is assessed annually. Based on what I’m reading we Probably will sell all three weeks.