My mum got sucked into a timeshare that was poorly translated

[Lobotomize me Captain]

Am starting a new post as I've been informed of what's legal for those involved in a timeshare and what isn't, to better help those responding with advice.

(This post is being updated as the situation updates)

My mum and her friend (we'll call her C) got herself into a stupid timeshare, and she is below the poverty line.
Club Exploria LLC states online that in order to qualify you have to have a major credit score and make $65k a year.

They asked my mum how much she makes in a year, and my mum responded:
"I make $45,000 a year."
Her credit score currently sits at 603.

The sales person didn't ask her friend, C, for her credit score or total income.

On Explorias website it states that you just be married to the joint signer/purchaser and live under the same roof to total annual income anyways.

My mum provided: $45k. My mums friend is basically unemployed (as in, freelance with little income).
Both of their credit scores sit below 650.

I learned some other things too, which makes this situation even worse.

Upon further discussion to better understand how this all happened and how to pursue, the friend who signed didn't even know it was a timeshare.
The way the salesperson presented it was as a "membership" that could be easily cancelled, and easily sold as a great investment.

Upon looking at customer reviews online, it's very clear that Exploria is not a good investment, or opportunistic.

During the entire sales pitch, the English contract was not present to discuss. The Salesperson chose not to respond to certain direct questions.
For example, when my mum asked her if it was truly only $14k, the sales person only nodded to confirm.
She did not add that there would be a $15k interest rate, and that the total would actually be near $30k.

The document receipt states that both English and Spanish versions of the document are to be provided for some.
Out of the 8 documents they were to provide a Spanish version for, only 5 blank documents were provided.
In the Spanish version of the service disclosure, it's completely blank.
How was my mum to know about the additional rates of the Spanish version did not provide any of this information, to allow her the ability to understand what she truly signed in the 10 days following to then cancel?

They didn't discuss the assessment fees, club dues, or the interest rate. They told her she could "pay it off" in 21 payments.... Which is absolute bull because that totals to less than $6k.

A real estate agent I know said I should contact the real estate commission of FL, and I've done so.
The issue is providing them with the documents they need in it's entirety, as Club Exploria did not provide my mum or C with a digital version of the contract, although they signed the papers to review a USB with this information.

As anyone reading could understand, I'm extremely angry and I'm not backing down, so anyone who can help with information to get this undone for legitimately concerning reasons, I'd appreciate it.

So far I've received a LOT of helpful information and resources in the initial post, and this is why I needed to update (as I couldn't edit the initial post). I'll leave the initial post up as it can help many people.

So far:
- C was invited to a resort for a $200 reward for attending a meeting with a sales person
- The salesperson reassured that it was a easy to cancel membership, and the total would only be $14k
- The salesperson neglected to inform my mum and C that it's a mortgage with a $15k interest
- On the website, as someone else here pointed out (thank you!) it states that you must make $65k a year to qualify with good credit.
- My mum stated to the salesperson that she makes $45k total
- They didn't check her credit score (though apparently they don't "have to" as I found online from others), though my mum has a credit score of 603
- They did not ask C how much she makes in annual or what her credit score is, though she doesn't make more than $45k, and has a low credit score too.
- The salesperson omitted and manipulated plenty of information, going against the contracts statement of summarizing the contract and documents signed.
- The as-needed provided Spanish version of the disclosure provided no information and was left blank
- Any attempts at contacting the salesperson who provided her number to my mum via Whatsapp to further discuss this matter has been ignored

What is being done:
- Told my mum to not hire a timeshare lawyer and to avoid exit companies
- The sales person said that the notary would be fine with making C the one paying from a credit in an attempts to remove joint responsibility for the contract, but obviously my mums social remains and she can still be affected if C doesn't pay on time or pay.
- My mum has not provided a credit card to Exploria, but C has.
- Contacted the General Attorney in FL
- Contacts the Real Estate Commission in FL
- Emailed the email provided on Club Exploria's terms and conditions webpage
- Will be adding links providing similar tactics and cases scattered online regarding Exploria, suggest further investigation in hopes of launching a CAL in the future (this is gonna be my goal regardless of whether or not my mum gets out).
- Keeping in touch with a local real estate agent/friend of family with over 40 years in the field and who has a successful real estate company (who was the one who suggested to contact the real estate commissions).
- Provided both REC and GA with a number of laws that the Exploria salesperson committed, including false advertisement, especially those in place to protect FL consumers

What I'm looking for:
- Any information on what attorney I should look into should Club Exploria not cancel the contract due to their employee misinforming, material misinterpretation, and false advertising tactics, as well as saying that my mum qualifies, though she clearly does not by terms and conditions stated by Club Exploria themselves

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

If there is a loan then a credit report was pulled. If a credit report was pulled then a credit application was filed out. If the sales rep fudged the income on the application to help it qualify for the loan then that is a crime. What income did your mom and friend put down on their respective applications?

The salesperson asked my mum. My mum responded with $45k, as she reports on her taxes.
The salesperson did not ask C for her income.
The salesperson did not mention any checking of their credit, but my mum is the only one who provided a bank account to pay for the $1.6k that was split by her and C.
They did ask for their socials.

My mum has a credit score at 603. Her friend has a credit score of 650 or less.

 

[letsgobobby]

Are you saying your mom is legally incompetent to manage her affairs? That she needs a guardian/conservator and should no longer be permitted to sign legal documents herself?

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

Are you saying your mom is legally incompetent to manage her affairs? That she needs a guardian/conservator and should no longer be permitted to sign legal documents herself?

She does not possess the mental capacity, no. It's why I've been keeping an eye on her finances, sadly.

 

[letsgobobby]

She does not possess the mental capacity, no. It's why I've been keeping an eye on her finances, sadly.

Have you had neuropsychological testing done? Have you petitioned for guardianship?

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

Have you had neuropsychological testing done? Have you petitioned for guardianship?

No.
Regardless, I would encourage that you keep up with this page, as we've now found that the requirement is $65k with a major credit score, and neither my mum or C qualify.
Thanks.

 

[letsgobobby]

it seems this is likely to keep happening, your mother is vulnerable to innumerable scams of which this is just the first you know about. There will be computer security scams and cold calling cell phone scams and kidnapped grandchildren scams and IRS scams and bank debit card scams and so on. if your mom is mentally incompetent then you need to have her found so by a professional and declared so in a court of law and then remove her access to all financial powers. She can't proffer access to her accounts if she doesn't control them.

 

[ScoopKona]

No.
Regardless, I would encourage that you keep up with this page, as we've now found that the requirement is $65k with a major credit score, and neither my mum or C qualify.
Thanks.

I would encourage that you listen. The "requirements" don't matter. Those are the requirements to receive whatever worthless "gift" they gave away that day.

All that matters is the contract and whether it can be enforced. Welcome to Florida.

 

[TUGBrian]

there is no reason to start a new post for the same subject...merging

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

I would encourage that you listen. The "requirements" don't matter. Those are the requirements to receive whatever worthless "gift" they gave away that day.

All that matters is the contract and whether it can be enforced. Welcome to Florida

My question is why they were even allowed into the resort if they didn't even qualify for the presentation?

 

[RX8]

My question is why they were even allowed into the resort if they didn't even qualify for the presentation?

The bigger question is how she qualified for the loan. Find out who the loan is with and get a copy of the application. If the income on the app doesn’t match what she said then complain with the lender. As I said before, a salesperson intentionally fudging income on an application to help it get approved, or even a lower rate, is a real crime. My experience is with auto lending and it isn’t uncommon for a bank to require a dealer to pay off a loan due to misrepresented applications. Banks want to ensure who they are approving is representative of the application. I personally have requested dealers to pay off a contract due to a misrepresented application and even for an unpaid down payment that was due to the dealer. A lender for a timeshare should be no different.

 

[abcdefg]

I would encourage that you listen. The "requirements" don't matter. Those are the requirements to receive whatever worthless "gift" they gave away that day.

All that matters is the contract and whether it can be enforced. Welcome to Florida.

Hell no. At the very least you speak the truth and drag their reputation through the mud and cost them as much business as possible. They need to think long and hard if this is worth pursuing.

 

[dioxide45]

The bigger question is how she qualified for the loan. Find out who the loan is with and get a copy of the application. If the income on the app doesn’t match what she said then complain with the lender. As I said before, a salesperson intentionally fudging income on an application to help it get approved, or even a lower rate, is a real crime. My experience is with auto lending and it isn’t uncommon for a bank to require a dealer to pay off a loan due to misrepresented applications. Banks want to ensure who they are approving is representative of the application. I personally have requested dealers to pay off a contract due to a misrepresented application and even for an unpaid down payment that was due to the dealer. A lender for a timeshare should be no different.

Timeshare loans aren't generally with anyone. There isn't a big bank (or even a small one) or other institution there wiring money at closing like you have with home or car loans. These are generally seller financed. Meaning the timeshare company is writing up the note (and mortgage) as the lender.

Timeshare companies may later securitize those notes by writing up new notes to sell to institutional investors using the timeshare notes as collateral. In the short of it, there isn't really any qualifications needing to be met because if the borrower defaults the timeshare company just takes the timeshare back and sells it again. They aren't really out any real money because no amount of money really changed hands at the closing. If they securitized these timeshare notes and one defaults, then they usually do a swap under whatever is allowable in the securitization deal.

 

[abcdefg]

Here's what's going to happen if you try to get the contract voided, rescinded, annulled or similar: nothing.

The CEO of the company probably plays golf with the Florida Real Estate Division. The attorney general isn't going to do anything because he was appointed by the guy who gets campaign contributions from the timeshare company. This sort of thing happened in my home town all the time. Google "Bubba Bust" if you'd like a fun read involving a fire chief/drug dealer named Bum Farto. (My down the street neighbor for years.)

Fight it all you want. I wish you luck. But don't spend any money fighting it because it won't do any good. Many people have tried to fight the timeshare industry in Florida and only a handful got anywhere. And there hasn't been any wholesale overhaul of the system. (And if that was going to happen, it would have happened by now.)

Your two options aren't going to change -- use it and make the best of it; or stop paying and walk away. Anything else is a waste of time, money or both.

It's should be about what is going to happen if they don't rescind. I am tired of reading about these sick twisted *bleep*s. It is a simple principle. The consequences for them not rescinding should be more severe then them rescinding. I for one am motivated and planning on attending and persuading potential buyers not to buy. Only need 2 to break even. I am also going to expose Exploria's corrupt parent company Cerebrus capital. One of there subsidiaries trained the killers of that Saudia Arabian journalist.

 

[Lobotomize me Captain]

Timeshare loans aren't generally with anyone. There isn't a big bank (or even a small one) or other institution there wiring money at closing like you have with home or car loans. These are generally seller financed. Meaning the timeshare company is writing up the note (and mortgage) as the lender.

Timeshare companies may later securitize those notes by writing up new notes to sell to institutional investors using the timeshare notes as collateral. In the short of it, there isn't really any qualifications needing to be met because if the borrower defaults the timeshare company just takes the timeshare back and sells it again. They aren't really out any real money because no amount of money really changed hands at the closing. If they securitized these timeshare notes and one defaults, then they usually do a swap under whatever is allowable in the securitization deal.

I'm sorry, I've never had to get a loan so I'm not sure what this means other than: this is their own money so they don't lose anything should a person stop paying.
I mean there's obviously going to be a blow against the purchaser but there's literally no injury to Exploria since this is already their money?
I know that's legal but damn does that seem absolutely illegal to use against a purchaser if the purchaser can't or can no longer afford the loan and fees.
I'd honestly think at that point it'd just be easier for them to get their property back instead of wasting money on foreclosure since they haven't wasted any money in the first place.
Insane.

 

[letsgobobby]

your mom can't pay and she's judgment proof and doesn't have any credit score to ruin. why go through all the hassle of an attorney etc? why not just not pay?

 

[Patri]

And don’t worry about a house. How is she competent to buy one?

 

[ScoopKona]

The bigger question is how she qualified for the loan. Find out who the loan is with and get a copy of the application. If the income on the app doesn’t match what she said then complain with the lender. As I said before, a salesperson intentionally fudging income on an application to help it get approved, or even a lower rate, is a real crime. My experience is with auto lending and it isn’t uncommon for a bank to require a dealer to pay off a loan due to misrepresented applications.

Timeshare companies typically carry their own paper. There is no bank. The loan "application" is just part of the song and dance. Since there is no bank, there is no bank fraud. They can loan money to anyone. And if someone defaults, they sell the week again and keep whatever they made from the previous sale.

Think "buy here, pay here" used car lots and not Fannie Mae.

 

[Mongoose]

My question is why they were even allowed into the resort if they didn't even qualify for the presentation?

That doesn’t matter. Was the contract written in a language she is literate in?

 

[Mongoose]

Timeshare companies typically carry their own paper. There is no bank. The loan "application" is just part of the song and dance. Since there is no bank, there is no bank fraud. They can loan money to anyone. And if someone defaults, they sell the week again and keep whatever they made from the previous sale.

Think "buy here, pay here" used car lots and not Fannie Mae.

I think they make more money on interest than anything else. I saw a HGVC offer at 19.99% For 120 months.

 

[ScoopKona]

I think they make more money on interest than anything else. I saw a HGVC offer at 19.99% For 120 months.

They don't have the law of large numbers on their side that casinos do. But they know their percentages. They know how many qualified buyers will be enticed by the lure of a free "gift." They know how many of those timeshare tours will convert into sales. They know how many of those sales will rescind. They know how many of those sales will default. And they know how many owners will never actually use what they own -- just paying forever on the vacation equivalent of a millstone. They know how many happy owners they have. And how many unhappy owners they have.

They also know how many owners will threaten legal action. And they know the probability of that action yielding any result at all. They have a legal team which has already signed off on their business practices -- the increased sales outweigh the minor annoyance of going-nowhere lawsuits.

 

[silentg]

Your Mum and C are not domestic partners? Do they live together? The qualifications are husband and wife or domestic partners. The contract should be invalid. Clearly took advantage of both.

 

[rapmarks]

Salespeople are so astute, they probably would have gotten her to sign in either language. How long has your mother been incapable? With so many scams out there, she is very vulnerable

 

[abcdefg]

I found a former salesperson leaving a review on indeed. They accused their coworkers of scamming people. I am in the process of cross referencing the date with past employees on LikedIn to track them down. I am going to see if they will document things and name names for the attorney general.

 

[abcdefg]

They don't have the law of large numbers on their side that casinos do. But they know their percentages. They know how many qualified buyers will be enticed by the lure of a free "gift." They know how many of those timeshare tours will convert into sales. They know how many of those sales will rescind. They know how many of those sales will default. And they know how many owners will never actually use what they own -- just paying forever on the vacation equivalent of a millstone. They know how many happy owners they have. And how many unhappy owners they have.

They also know how many owners will threaten legal action. And they know the probability of that action yielding any result at all. They have a legal team which has already signed off on their business practices -- the increased sales outweigh the minor annoyance of going-nowhere lawsuits

They don't have the law of large numbers on their side that casinos do. But they know their percentages. They know how many qualified buyers will be enticed by the lure of a free "gift." They know how many of those timeshare tours will convert into sales. They know how many of those sales will rescind. They know how many of those sales will default. And they know how many owners will never actually use what they own -- just paying forever on the vacation equivalent of a millstone. They know how many happy owners they have. And how many unhappy owners they have.

They also know how many owners will threaten legal action. And they know the probability of that action yielding any result at all. They have a legal team which has already signed off on their business practices -- the increased sales outweigh the minor annoyance of going-nowhere lawsuits.

That is why there is a moral responsibility to do whatever it takes to make scammy unethical behavior like this to be a bad investment for them. F around < finding out. F around should never be worth finding out. And there should be some interest and extra fees added to the finding out too of course.