*** NEW *** : Starwood is starting a new points program

[dsmrp]

I don't think this is correct - SVN membership lasts as long as you own a mandatory deed. Or until Starwood eliminates the SVN.

I have a voluntary deed. I need to back and check my contract

 

[DeniseM]

I have a voluntary deed. I need to back and check my contract

Either way, I have never heard of a Starwood deed that was for 5 years, and I also own a fixed week at SVR.

 

[VacationForever]

There are wordings in that the owner can opt out of SVN (the internal trading system). I think opting out after 5 years is where the wordings came from.

 

[DeniseM]

There are wordings in that the owner can opt out of SVN (the internal trading system). I think opting out after 5 years is where the wordings came from.

On a voluntary deed?

 

[cubigbird]

oh btw, cugigbird, I have a fixed SVR week in SVN, and I still retain the right to reserve my fixed week. It's actually sort of pre-reserved for me until I release it. If I make an online star options reservation, the system warns me I won't be able to use my 201x fixed week.

My SVR week is a voluntary resale week so I have no SOs. I hope to retro it someday and bring it into SVN. I have no intention of giving up my right to my fixed week. I'm sure they'll try to get me to upgrade into said trust. If rather retro and keep what I have.

 

[VacationForever]

On a voluntary deed?

Developer purchased voluntary week. Don't know if them SVN language is the same on a mandatory week.

 

[YYJMSP]

I don't think this is correct - SVN membership lasts as long as you own a mandatory deed. Or until Starwood eliminates the SVN.

Or until the property leaves SVN.

 

[YYJMSP]

There are wordings in that the owner can opt out of SVN (the internal trading system). I think opting out after 5 years is where the wordings came from.

Really? The only clause I could find basically says you don't have to use SVN, but nowhere did I see anything about opting out...

 

[VacationForever]

Really? The only clause I could find basically says you don't have to use SVN, but nowhere did I see anything about opting out...

I do/did have the SVN paperwork that stated that. I don't know if I can still find them.

 

[YYJMSP]

Developer purchased voluntary week. Don't know if them SVN language is the same on a mandatory week.

The SVN docs I have for my mandatory units is a tiny bit different than those for the voluntary units, but substantially the same content.

The voluntary version has wording to deal with mandatory, voluntary, and requalified. The mandatory version doesn't address voluntary/requalified.

I didn't see anything about a 5 year membership or way to opt-out.

 

[VacationForever]

The SVN docs I have for my mandatory units is a tiny bit different than those for the voluntary units, but substantially the same content.

The voluntary version has wording to deal with mandatory, voluntary, and requalified. The mandatory version doesn't address voluntary/requalified.

I didn't see anything about a 5 year membership or way to opt-out.

Mine definitely allows an opt-out.

 

[JudyS]

I also attended an "Owner's Update" at the Sheraton Vistana recently. It was on January 28th. I was all eager to post about the new Flex program on TUG, but right after I left I found out my cat had died while I was at the update. (I recently posted about my cat in the TUG Lounge.) I was upset and didn't get around to posting about this until now. I forgot some of what was at the presentation, but here is some information I am confident about.

1) The formal name of the new program is the "Sheraton Flex Vacation Plan." (I actually have this name on a page I tore out from a big glossy brochure they gave us. The rest of the brochure was pretty useless and it was heavy, so I threw it away. It was mostly pictures of beaches and Disney World and other local attractions, with no real information.)

2) The five resorts included are as stated earlier on this thread.

3) If the old StarOptions system keeps the existing system of different number of StarOptions required for different systems, then the new "Flex" StarOptions will have seasons, too. Our salesperson (I can't even remember if it was a man or woman!) kept emphasizing that this new program would be "just like" the existing StarOptions system, "except now instead of having one home resort, you'll have five, and you'll be able to book at any of the five at 12 months out." (The salesperson neglected to mention how combining inventory pools from multiple resorts can make it hard to book desirable resorts, of course. I discuss this further down in this post.)

4) The salesperson tried to get my husband and me to "retro" our existing three Starwood fixed/floating week ownerships in exchange for the new Flex StarOptions system. (We don't own any StarOptions currently. We own one fixed/floating week per year at SVR, plus two small fixed/floating one-bedrooms per year at the original phase of SBP. These are all peak season weeks and all purchased resale.) Starwood wanted $20,000 new money. I don't remember the exact number of Flex StarOptions they were offering; it was somewhere around 150,000. They were going to also somehow give us credit for another timeshare we owned to get us to 3* Elite level. They never told us what the new MF would be, but they offered to give us free MFs for 2015, and also let us keep our three existing 2015 reservations. My impression was that we would actually be permanently turning in our deeds to them and losing any booking privileges our existing deeds provide, but I'm not sure about that.

5) The salesperson said that existing StarOption owners at the five Sheratons in the program would "probably have the chance to convert to the new Flex program for a fee."

6) The salesperson said Flex StarOptions owners and existing StarOptions owners would all be booking from the same inventory pool, although I'm not sure he/she really knew about that.

7) The salesperson also said that Starwood was starting some sort of new points system with II where owners of StarOptions could deposit StarOptions and get "change" back if they traded down to a smaller or lower-season unit. I actually have no idea how StarOptions currently work with II, so I don't know how this differs from the current system.

Here are some impressions I have:

It is probably no longer possible to "retro" a deed at any of the five Sheratons in the the Flex program and get the old, "non-Flex" StarOptions. Instead, Starwood seems to only offer the new Flex StarOptions for people who want to retro weeks at these five resorts.

I know that most Tuggers are savvy enough to buy high season weeks, not low season weeks. Since the new Flex program seems to combine together deeds from high season weeks and low season weeks, I would expect the annual fee per Flex StarOption to be considerably higher than what most Tuggers have been paying per StarOption at these five resorts.

I expect that this new system will have very low availability for peak demand resorts/times. I don't know about the other resorts, but there is maybe an 8-week period that is truly peak season at Myrtle Beach. It's hard enough to book summer at Myrtle Beach now, with something like 20 weeks in the Gold Plus season at the original phase of SBP. With the new system, ownerships based on all times of the year and all five resorts can compete for those eight weeks a year at Myrtle Beach.

I see the new Flex system as having two big advantages to Starwood. 1) They can take excess inventory from low demand times and locations (fall in Orlando, say) and sell it by featuring high demand times and locations, even though they won't have nearly enough inventory at those high demand times and locations to satisfy all the requests. 2) They can charge existing StarPoints owners to convert to this new Flex program.

I see this new Flex system as having no advantages to me as an owner of peak weeks. Turn in my summer weeks at Myrtle Beach and pay $20,000 for the right to compete with untold thousands of owners for a summer week? No, thank you.

Also, if it is really true that owners of existing StarOptions and owners of Flex StarOptions will be booking from the same inventory, that is bad news for anyone who bought high-season StarOptions at any of these five resorts. I was interested in maybe buying some resale SVV StarOptions, but I'm going to wait and see how this all shakes out.

 

[LisaRex]

Thanks for the information, JudyS. I'm so sorry about your cat.

 

[SMHarman]

Judy. Perhaps this will also mean that SVO stop dropping so much SBP into RCI.

 

[Julian926]

7) The salesperson also said that Starwood was starting some sort of new points system with II where owners of StarOptions could deposit StarOptions and get "change" back if they traded down to a smaller or lower-season unit. I actually have no idea how StarOptions currently work with II, so I don't know how this differs from the current system.

I really like this part. I would've never considered exchanging in II with a 2br that my wife and I would just use. We bought SVV-Bella with the option to split up vacations using star options.

This would open up more vacation options through II

 

[cubigbird]

I also attended an "Owner's Update" at the Sheraton Vistana recently. It was on January 28th. I was all eager to post about the new Flex program on TUG, but right after I left I found out my cat had died while I was at the update. (I recently posted about my cat in the TUG Lounge.) I was upset and didn't get around to posting about this until now. I forgot some of what was at the presentation, but here is some information I am confident about.

1) The formal name of the new program is the "Sheraton Flex Vacation Plan." (I actually have this name on a page I tore out from a big glossy brochure they gave us. The rest of the brochure was pretty useless and it was heavy, so I threw it away. It was mostly pictures of beaches and Disney World and other local attractions, with no real information.)

2) The five resorts included are as stated earlier on this thread.

3) If the old StarOptions system keeps the existing system of different number of StarOptions required for different systems, then the new "Flex" StarOptions will have seasons, too. Our salesperson (I can't even remember if it was a man or woman!) kept emphasizing that this new program would be "just like" the existing StarOptions system, "except now instead of having one home resort, you'll have five, and you'll be able to book at any of the five at 12 months out." (The salesperson neglected to mention how combining inventory pools from multiple resorts can make it hard to book desirable resorts, of course. I discuss this further down in this post.)

4) The salesperson tried to get my husband and me to "retro" our existing three Starwood fixed/floating week ownerships in exchange for the new Flex StarOptions system. (We don't own any StarOptions currently. We own one fixed/floating week per year at SVR, plus two small fixed/floating one-bedrooms per year at the original phase of SBP. These are all peak season weeks and all purchased resale.) Starwood wanted $20,000 new money. I don't remember the exact number of Flex StarOptions they were offering; it was somewhere around 150,000. They were going to also somehow give us credit for another timeshare we owned to get us to 3* Elite level. They never told us what the new MF would be, but they offered to give us free MFs for 2015, and also let us keep our three existing 2015 reservations. My impression was that we would actually be permanently turning in our deeds to them and losing any booking privileges our existing deeds provide, but I'm not sure about that.

5) The salesperson said that existing StarOption owners at the five Sheratons in the program would "probably have the chance to convert to the new Flex program for a fee."

6) The salesperson said Flex StarOptions owners and existing StarOptions owners would all be booking from the same inventory pool, although I'm not sure he/she really knew about that.

7) The salesperson also said that Starwood was starting some sort of new points system with II where owners of StarOptions could deposit StarOptions and get "change" back if they traded down to a smaller or lower-season unit. I actually have no idea how StarOptions currently work with II, so I don't know how this differs from the current system.

Here are some impressions I have:

It is probably no longer possible to "retro" a deed at any of the five Sheratons in the the Flex program and get the old, "non-Flex" StarOptions. Instead, Starwood seems to only offer the new Flex StarOptions for people who want to retro weeks at these five resorts.

I know that most Tuggers are savvy enough to buy high season weeks, not low season weeks. Since the new Flex program seems to combine together deeds from high season weeks and low season weeks, I would expect the annual fee per Flex StarOption to be considerably higher than what most Tuggers have been paying per StarOption at these five resorts.

I expect that this new system will have very low availability for peak demand resorts/times. I don't know about the other resorts, but there is maybe an 8-week period that is truly peak season at Myrtle Beach. It's hard enough to book summer at Myrtle Beach now, with something like 20 weeks in the Gold Plus season at the original phase of SBP. With the new system, ownerships based on all times of the year and all five resorts can compete for those eight weeks a year at Myrtle Beach.

I see the new Flex system as having two big advantages to Starwood. 1) They can take excess inventory from low demand times and locations (fall in Orlando, say) and sell it by featuring high demand times and locations, even though they won't have nearly enough inventory at those high demand times and locations to satisfy all the requests. 2) They can charge existing StarPoints owners to convert to this new Flex program.

I see this new Flex system as having no advantages to me as an owner of peak weeks. Turn in my summer weeks at Myrtle Beach and pay $20,000 for the right to compete with untold thousands of owners for a summer week? No, thank you.

Also, if it is really true that owners of existing StarOptions and owners of Flex StarOptions will be booking from the same inventory, that is bad news for anyone who bought high-season StarOptions at any of these five resorts. I was interested in maybe buying some resale SVV StarOptions, but I'm going to wait and see how this all shakes out.

Ditto. My SVR is a fixed week 27 - high season that usually falls over July 4th. There's no advantage to retroing into the FLEX program. I'd be giving up my guaranteed availability for the option to compete with everyone else for that same week. Like stated above - no thanks!! Granted it is voluntary and I also have no Staroptions but I am not afraid of exchanging in II. That I am flexible with, but given we occasionally use our fixed week at the home resort, I'd rather not give that up, especially for $20,000.

 

[alexadeparis]

I would be excited about the "Staroptions as II currency" rollout if the remaining Staroptions are usable in the SVN program. This is the way it currently works with Shell points and it's great. I can get two full weeks out of it that way (or more) because it costs only 3500 points for a one bedroom in High season. I have 7550, which gets me usually a one bedroom in Shell Hawaii club, so I can stretch if needed with II.

It, of course, will depend on what those values will be, but I have a feeling that this "Staroptions as II currency" will have to roll out to ALL SVN Staroption owners, not just Flex. If the values are any good, it may make some of the higher MF mandatory resorts (WKORV, WSJ, HRA) more tolerable to purchase if several weeks can be stretched out of the MF on the years you don't want to use it.

 

[sjsharkie]

I would be excited about the "Staroptions as II currency" rollout if the remaining Staroptions are usable in the SVN program. This is the way it currently works with Shell points and it's great. I can get two full weeks out of it that way (or more) because it costs only 3500 points for a one bedroom in High season. I have 7550, which gets me usually a one bedroom in Shell Hawaii club, so I can stretch if needed with II.

It, of course, will depend on what those values will be, but I have a feeling that this "Staroptions as II currency" will have to roll out to ALL SVN Staroption owners, not just Flex. If the values are any good, it may make some of the higher MF mandatory resorts (WKORV, WSJ, HRA) more tolerable to purchase if several weeks can be stretched out of the MF on the years you don't want to use it.

I can't see this happening. The difference is that you don't have an underlying week for Shell points -- it is a points only system. Current SVN members have points tied to a particular week. So if I trade part of my WKV week, what does II get in return? -- a partial week? IMHO, this might become an accounting nightmare to track.

Maybe, for the flex points system members this will happen since they may not have an underlying deed for the week, but I can't see it happening for SVN as it currently stands.

-ryan

 

[tschwa2]

There are several systems that have deeded owners and points owners that exchange through II or (RCI for that matter) where points owners use a fixed grid- a 1 br in high season cost x number of points and so on. Deeded owners just deposit their weeks. DRI has club members that use points and some deeded week owners that exchange through II. Marriott obviously has trust owners that use a grid for exchanges and deeded week owners who use II (both enrolled and unenrolled) use their deeded weeks.

I can see that they may change SVN members who exchange through II into a Options as currency grid (without charging a fee to convert to anything). If they change it that way for those SVN members it will probably be a mandatory change. It may work at well for owners of platinum and maybe even gold plus weeks but I see gold and below SVN owners being skrewed. They already have limited options in SVN but could always deposit 1 br or larger units in II and get an upgrade in size or season.

 

[tschwa2]

So if I trade part of my WKV week, what does II get in return? -- a partial week? IMHO, this might become an accounting nightmare to track.

I don't think this would be a problem. II and Starwood already have a back room deal and when you say, you are depositing a week in a particular size unit you are getting an average trading value for your season and behind the scenes Starwood decides what to deposits. You could get 3 low season small bedrooms and Starwood might deposit one high season large one bedroom.

So that isn't the problem. They just aren't going to convert you into any SVN type points system without requiring a substantial fee to do so.

 

[dsmrp]

1) The formal name of the new program is the "Sheraton Flex Vacation Plan." (I actually have this name on a page I tore out from a big glossy brochure they gave us. The rest of the brochure was pretty useless and it was heavy, so I threw it away. It was mostly pictures of beaches and Disney World and other local attractions, with no real information.)
2) The five resorts included are as stated earlier on this thread.

Hmm, they're branding with "Sheraton". So the Westin hotel properties forecast to be converted to timeshare, may not be part of this flex plan??

3) If the old StarOptions system keeps the existing system of different number of StarOptions required for different systems, then the new "Flex" StarOptions will have seasons, too. Our salesperson (I can't even remember if it was a man or woman!) kept emphasizing that this new program would be "just like" the existing StarOptions system, "except now instead of having one home resort, you'll have five, and you'll be able to book at any of the five at 12 months out." (The salesperson neglected to mention how combining inventory pools from multiple resorts can make it hard to book desirable resorts, of course. I discuss this further down in this post.)

Salesperson obfuscating "just like" so potential buyer interprets to mean "same", while new flex system will be really 'similar' to the existing Staroptions system.

5) The salesperson said that existing StarOption owners at the five Sheratons in the program would "probably have the chance to convert to the new Flex program for a fee."
...
It is probably no longer possible to "retro" a deed at any of the five Sheratons in the the Flex program and get the old, "non-Flex" StarOptions. Instead, Starwood seems to only offer the new Flex StarOptions for people who want to retro weeks at these five resorts.

It's an inevitable conclusion they would stop the retro-ing into the original non-flex Staroptions system. I just thought based on some other comments about a May roll-out that there might be a little cushion of time before Starwood stopped the retro-ing into the original staroptions system.

I am a little concerned how Starwood will handle the SVN owners at the voluntary locations; the majority of which I think were retros, e.g. SDO plat units. Undoubtedly there will be a fee to convert to flex system, but magnitude TBD.
I finally did go back and find my SVN agreement at voluntary SVR property, signed last year. The 5 year time period which I commented about earlier is from the Term sub-section:

"Term. Unless otherwise terminated as provided in this Agreement, this Agreement shall become effective on the date it is executed by SVN Operator and shall have a term of five (5) years. This Agreement shall automatically be renewed for successive terms of five (5) years unless either party notifies the other in writing of its election to terminate at least ninety (90) days prior to the expiration of the initial term or any successive renewal term. ...."

It's the "either party" notification part that worries me. In best or worse case (depending upon how you look at it), I have 4 more years to use existing SVN staroptions system before Starwood can terminate the agreement. If best alternative is the new flex program, hope Starwood would grandfather us into it for nominal fee.

Oh and another clause in the SVN agreement under Owner Acknowledgements:
" The terms and conditions of the SVN Rules are subject to change by SVN Operator in its sole discretion without Owner's consent, including all SVN fees, benefits, and reservation priorities and procedures".

 

[YYJMSP]

Hmm, they're branding with "Sheraton". So the Westin hotel properties forecast to be converted to timeshare, may not be part of this flex plan??

Probably just means that they'll have one (or more) separate flex plans that contain one or more Westin properties.

That would let them price points differently for combinations of "like" properties.

 

[sjsharkie]

There are several systems that have deeded owners and points owners that exchange through II or (RCI for that matter) where points owners use a fixed grid- a 1 br in high season cost x number of points and so on. Deeded owners just deposit their weeks. DRI has club members that use points and some deeded week owners that exchange through II. Marriott obviously has trust owners that use a grid for exchanges and deeded week owners who use II (both enrolled and unenrolled) use their deeded weeks.

I'm well aware that there are systems with weeks and points -- but neither DRI nor Marriott allow you to flip between both which is what the other poster suggested. Take Marriott -- you either own trust points and use the grid or you own the underlying week and trade that -- you can't own a week there and decide to use points derived from that week AFAIK. Besides the post I was responding to used Shell as the example which is solely points based and not a reasonable comparison.[/QUOTE]

I can see that they may change SVN members who exchange through II into a Options as currency grid (without charging a fee to convert to anything). If they change it that way for those SVN members it will probably be a mandatory change. It may work at well for owners of platinum and maybe even gold plus weeks but I see gold and below SVN owners being skrewed. They already have limited options in SVN but could always deposit 1 br or larger units in II and get an upgrade in size or season.

Possible, but I doubt it. Again, why would II want to do that when they can just get the entire week for free as it stands currently.

-ryan

 

[sjsharkie]

I don't think this would be a problem. II and Starwood already have a back room deal and when you say, you are depositing a week in a particular size unit you are getting an average trading value for your season and behind the scenes Starwood decides what to deposits. You could get 3 low season small bedrooms and Starwood might deposit one high season large one bedroom.

So that isn't the problem. They just aren't going to convert you into any SVN type points system without requiring a substantial fee to do so.

What you write is conjecture. We don't know what II gets in return in the contract -- I believe they still get a one for one deal. One trade = one deposit anytime within that season. But again, nothing is published to state what Starwood deposits when you give II your week -- we only know that we receive the average trading value of our week.

I think it is an issue to track weeks deposited that aren't one for one -- and ensure that fair equity is being deposited for what was given up. Is it possible to be done contractually -- sure, just as it is possible to require a one for one deposit each time a week is traded.

-ryan

 

[sjsharkie]

I finally did go back and find my SVN agreement at voluntary SVR property, signed last year. The 5 year time period which I commented about earlier is from the Term sub-section:

"Term. Unless otherwise terminated as provided in this Agreement, this Agreement shall become effective on the date it is executed by SVN Operator and shall have a term of five (5) years. This Agreement shall automatically be renewed for successive terms of five (5) years unless either party notifies the other in writing of its election to terminate at least ninety (90) days prior to the expiration of the initial term or any successive renewal term. ...."

It's the "either party" notification part that worries me. In best or worse case (depending upon how you look at it), I have 4 more years to use existing SVN staroptions system before Starwood can terminate the agreement. If best alternative is the new flex program, hope Starwood would grandfather us into it for nominal fee.

Oh and another clause in the SVN agreement under Owner Acknowledgements:
" The terms and conditions of the SVN Rules are subject to change by SVN Operator in its sole discretion without Owner's consent, including all SVN fees, benefits, and reservation priorities and procedures".

It is well known that the SVN club rules can change at any time. The last clause you quoted is the one that should worry you, not the 5-year clause in your voluntary agreement IMHO.

If Starwood chooses to make a change, they can do so without terminating the SVN program itself (which I doubt they will do).

-ryan