Portugal Visit

[CalGalTraveler]

We are planning first visit to Portugal, Will spend a week at a timeshare in Algarve week 1. Week 2 we will visit Rock of Gibraltar and Seville then head north to Porto and LIsbon for departure.

For those who have been to Portugal, A few questions:

1) In addition to cities, we plan to take moderate 2 - 5 mile hikes. Will we need to bring hiking boots and sticks? ChatGPT told us not to miss are:

Seven Hanging Valleys trail (Sete Vales Suspensos)
Sintra-Cascais Natural Park - Roka Cape Trail
Ponta da Diedade Coastal Walk
Rock of Gibraltar

We are renting a car.

Are these good hikes? Any other not to miss hikes? We also want to see cities and historic sights. Need hiking boots? or will running shoes suffice?

2) Any not to miss restaurants in Algarve Lisbon, Seville or Porto. We are not expensive, fancy foodies but we want to experience local cuisine which doesn't require a reservation. We don't want white tablecloths every night. Good local fare. Love most seafood except some shellfish. Shrimp and crab okay.

TIA

 

[ScoopKona]

2) Any not to miss restaurants in Algarve Lisbon, Seville or Porto. We are not expensive, fancy foodies but we want to experience local cuisine which doesn't require a reservation. We don't want white tablecloths every night. Good local fare. Love most seafood except some shellfish. Shrimp and crab okay.

You know how Olive Garden and Red Lobster routinely win "best Italian/Seafood restaurant" in the Best-Of edition of the local newspaper? These same people are on Trip Advisor and Yelp.

So take any reviews you read with not just a grain, but a shipping container of salt. Since everyone has to eat, everyone considers themselves an expert on food -- even the people who eat nothing but Golden Corral and Hot Pockets. One of my favorite reviews was when I worked at a steak house. "I'm a vegetarian, so I give this place zero stars."

OK, Karen. You know there's an Indian Vegetarian restaurant NEXT DOOR. Could have gone there instead of a flippin' steak house. She was probably the same nitwit who handed the server a business card with a laundry list of everything she didn't like to eat.

Here's how to find nice places abroad.

1) Learn when locals eat. Most European countries have dinner MUCH later than the US. Be on the early-side of "prime dining time." All the prep work is done that way. Americans who brazen into a restaurant which doesn't open until 8pm and demand to be fed at 4pm are not going to get a great meal.

2) Is the menu in English? Or even worse, is it in several different languages with pictures? Mosey on to the next place. Or even better, get out of the tourist area and search again. Tourist restaurants all have one thing in common -- they know they're never going to see you again. Find a place which relies on local business.

3) Line out the door with locals? That's your spot. Line of grandmothers buying food? That's DEFINITELY your spot.

4) Is there a seafood market in town? The sort of place which has lots of vendors in stalls selling fish? There is usually a kitchen nearby which will take anything you buy at the market, and for a very small price, cook it for you.

5) One of the best resources for "where should I eat lunch?" Local police officers. They know where the good, inexpensive food is. If I ever find myself talking to a cop, that's the first thing I'm asking. Only rarely will they give you a sarcastic answer such as "McDonald's."

Gibraltar is going to be your toughest spot to separate the wheat from the chaff restaurant-wise. There's a lot of overpriced, mediocre food there. It's kind of like a UK theme park for UK tourists trying to get away from UK weather.

If you have time in Gibraltar, and if you are lucky, you will be there on a day when you can take the cheap, quick ferry to Morocco. I used to do this all the time when I lived in Morocco. (Gibraltar may be a tourist trap, but the mail and phones work.) Morocco is not an easy country. And Tangier is the most difficult city in Morocco. But there's no place on earth quite like it. (Brush up on your French.) Something to look into for a possible day-trip, at least.

 

[Hindsite]

For food in Porto:
- take the metro out to Matosinhos, that's where the main fish market is and in the evenings the restaurants set up along the road and serve fish by weight and cook it right there for you. It doesn't get much better than that. As Scoop says it was after 8pm before they started service
- Also check out the restaurant on the top floor of the department store El Corte Inglese, they have an excellent terrace and a fantastically good value menu. They do open through the day so are a good option.
- If you are staying a bit out of town and there is a mall nearby they are also a good place for decent reasonably priced food. I'll add to Scoop's list of people to watch for and workmen are a good indicator for a decent lunch.
- There are a lot of restaurants along the river around the port warehouses, not all of them are any good as they are focussed on mass tourism, so stroll back a couple of streets and see what you can find.

For the Algarve: I'm off there Tuesday, for just a bit of exploring, no hiking, but if you want me to check out anywhere We can swing by and let you know what we find.

Gib: Give it a miss this trip, you've got more than enough to entertain you with Spain and Portugal, the "rock" is a blatant tourist rip off and if the monkeys don't steal your Ray-Bans the cloud will roll in and you won't see anything anyway. A lot of the time the peak has a whisper of cloud around it due to the climate and winds in that area. around it

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Hindsite & Scoopkona. Thank you for the helpful info.

@Hindsite Are you staying at a timeshare? If so which one? We have an RCI trade into Four Seasons Villamoura.

re: Gib: I figured it was a tourist trap. If we visit southern coast of Spain in the future or take a cruise out of Barcelona that might be a better logistical fit. OTOH, we want to say we saw it since we may never get there again. Will only give it a half or 3/4 day. We are planning to visit Seville. I read Seville is neat.

Chat GPT has given me a 14 day itinerary to get started with recommendations for daily Algarve day trips. I can share if it would be useful to your trip.

I also will be picking up a book or two from the Library to get ideas. Planning is half the fun.

 

[Hindsite]

Are you staying at a timeshare? If so which one? We have an RCI trade into Four Seasons Villamoura.

Yes, I booked a getaway via II at a place called Hotel Luna Da Oura. I couldn't get the 4 seasons, I've only got II and see it in low season but not this time of year, I'm very jealous!

With Gib perhaps see how it goes, the queues to drive in can be hours long, its not worth getting stuck at the boarder crossing and missing out on time in Seville or the Algarve.

Chat GPT has given me a 14 day itinerary to get started with recommendations for daily Algarve day trips. I can share if it would be useful to your trip.

Yes please, agree about the planning being fun

Where I don't agree with Scoop is about casual conversation with police in Spain or Portugal. Its in living memory that those countries were dictatorships and the police can be less than understanding. By all means spot where they eat, but I wouldn't take it any further.

 

[vikingsholm]

When we visited in 2023, did some long walks around Lisbon, Porto, and the town of Sintra, all of which I recommend and you wouldn't need boots.

Also walked down to the river and a few miles down the paved paths along the river in Porto, which too was worthwhile.

Enjoyed hiking the grounds of Pena Castle and the Moorish Castle in Sintra. Didn't have time to do other wooded trails on the Sintra-Cascais Natural Park grounds, but was happy with what we did there, and some is in other similar wooded grounds of the castles' large properties. Otherwise didn't do any of the trails you mentioned in the original post. Mostly these were on pavers, so again no boots or poles necessary, but tennis shoes for some short dirt trail sections.


Here are some photos from those castle grounds areas around Sintra.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Yes. I was getting matches for 4 seasons in October during Covid. Did not go. Luckily got this match last year. Wasn't going to take it because airfare was too expensive but ultimately found less expensive premium econ options e.g. Norse Atlantic, United miles. They are also priced as one way fares similar to Southwest so if you find an affordable award flight ow like I did, then you can mix and match.

Norse and some of the other budget premium econ like Level and French Bee are my new go to for USA to Europe. I hope they survive. They also put pricing pressure on the mainline carriers. Competition is good.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@vikingsholm Gorgeous photos. That's what I am talking about. What time of year is this?

 

[vikingsholm]

@vikingsholm Gorgeous photos. That's what I am talking about. What time of year is this?

That was in mid March. 60-75 degree days for the highs mostly, a little cooler in Porto. A few days with rain, mostly clear to partly cloudy that time though, out of 10 days.

Also recommend you do a tuk tuk tour in Lisbon for a few hours. Got to see a lot more, that we wouldn't have on foot only. This was a little electric vehicle (or maybe hybrid, I don't recall for sure), that could do the tight street alleys and was plenty roomy for us in back.

We had a private tour set up through our hotel, with a really nice guide who had moved up from Brazil previously. Here she is with the vehicle.

 

[ScoopKona]

Where I don't agree with Scoop is about casual conversation with police in Spain or Portugal. Its in living memory that those countries were dictatorships and the police can be less than understanding. By all means spot where they eat, but I wouldn't take it any further.

Portugal celebrated its first Freedom Day in 1974.

Even if a cop was a peach-fuzz, fresh-faced rookie in 1973 when it was still a dictatorship, he would be well past retirement age today. It's fine to talk to the cops in Portugal. It's fine to talk to anyone in Portugal. Even the people who were alive during Salazar's time. Just because they lived it doesn't mean they were part of it.

Pretty-much every country was a dictatorship at one time or another. Something our country would do well to remember, lest it happens here.

 

[Dori]

We second the advice to book a tuktuk tour. Our guide in Lisbon was fantastic! Just a FYI, the cobblestone streets in Lisbon are very steep, and can be slippery!

Dori

 

[Krteczech]

I suggest to take an early morning train from Lisbon to Sintra. You will have the place for yourself till about 10AM. Nice hiking and later you will visit all touristy places. Remember advance reservations.
i would also suggest to stop in Coimbra, especially University area, right on the way from Porto to Lisbon.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Krteczech thank you for the suggestions. Reservations for the park? Train? Restaurant?

Lastly, we will have a car - is train better?

 

[Passepartout]

We had a great time exploring the towns along the Algarve. Be sure to try the Cataplana. Kind of a paella sort of meal. Seafood and rice. Be patient and/or plan a late meal. Take in a 'Fada' show in Lisbon.

Jim

 

[CalGalTraveler]

One more question: Car rentals. How is Europcar, Budget, Enterprise or Hertz ok in Portugal? We had a terrible experience at Inverness airport, Scotland with Hertz UK. Are the roads decent? Wider than the UK? Any gotchas?

 

[Passepartout]

We used Budget. No issues. Highways are good, parking is tight. Don't rent bigger than you need.

 

[Hindsite]

Portugal celebrated its first Freedom Day in 1974.

Thanks, yes I'm aware of the history, more recently you only need to look at the very different ways in which the various nations in Europe used their police forces to enforce lock-downs during COVID to see the social cultural threads that span generations. If you didn't experience that, which I did, you may hold a different view.

Yes everyone, including the police, in Portugal and Spain are very friendly, the police are not your tour guides, some may help some may not.

 

[Hindsite]

On hire car, you can have a bad experience anywhere as most of them are franchised, so just stick with the main ones and try to get one that has the car and counter at the terminal, so you aren't reliant on a bus to pick you up.
To emphasis Passepartout, get the smallest car you can possibly get away with. I stayed at a hotel in Porto with underground parking and I have never experienced such difficulty getting down the very steep tight corners of the entranceway.

 

[ScoopKona]

Thanks, yes I'm aware of the history, more recently you only need to look at the very different ways in which the various nations in Europe used their police forces to enforce lock-downs during COVID to see the social cultural threads that span generations. If you didn't experience that, which I did, you may hold a different view.

Evel Knievel couldn't make that logical leap.

 

[ScoopKona]

One more question: Car rentals. How is Europcar, Budget, Enterprise or Hertz ok in Portugal? We had a terrible experience at Inverness airport, Scotland with Hertz UK. Are the roads decent? Wider than the UK? Any gotchas?

The first question I'd ask is "Am I 100% sure I want a car?"

Their rail system is much better than ours. Night-and-day better. Not just Portugal, all of western Europe. Not once ever have we said, "Wow. Wish we had a car." In fact, the opposite is true. "Why the [censored] are we driving when we could be taking the train?" Costs less. Considerably less. And you don't have to find a place to park. In the few instances where the rail station is too far from your destination, taxis and Uber are far more convenient (and far less expensive) than a rental car. You will pay more just to have an automatic transmission (which you're going to want considering all the hills) than you would on train fare.

Even if you're going to someplace not on this rail map, you're going to be "close enough" to last mile with a taxi.

Portugal train map - Train map Portugal (Southern Europe - Europe)

Train map Portugal. Portugal train map (Southern Europe - Europe) to print. Portugal train map (Southern Europe - Europe) to download.

maps-portugal.com

 

[Hindsite]

Evel Knievel couldn't make that logical leap.

I simply don't agree with you no need to be rude.

 

[ScoopKona]

I simply don't agree with you no need to be rude.

If I was trying to be rude, you'd know it.

Your premise is ridiculous. There's no sugar-coating that. And you're working on a gold-medal in backpedaling from "don't talk to cops because dictatorship" to "don't talk to cops because covid lockdown."

I'll talk to cops pretty-much anywhere -- even in the US where police are far more dangerous. I find them to be an excellent resource for quick local information -- seeing as they're more common than librarians and easier to spot on the street. And in a lifetime of asking police for directions, a good spot for lunch and similar, only a few times ever would I have been better served asking some random person or shopkeeper. And in places like Morocco and Egypt, talking to cops has the added bonus of keeping touts away.

Thanks to translate.google.com, it's become absolutely easy to solve immediate travel problems on the fly. I wish I had that resource in my youth -- back then, we had to learn enough of another language to be able to ask and receive directions.

 

[Hindsite]

If I was trying to be rude, you'd know it.

Your premise is ridiculous. There's no sugar-coating that. And you're working on a gold-medal in backpedaling from "don't talk to cops because dictatorship" to "don't talk to cops because covid lockdown."

I'll talk to cops pretty-much anywhere -- even in the US where police are far more dangerous. I find them to be an excellent resource for quick local information -- seeing as they're more common than librarians and easier to spot on the street. And in a lifetime of asking police for directions, a good spot for lunch and similar, only a few times ever would I have been better served asking some random person or shopkeeper. And in places like Morocco and Egypt, talking to cops has the added bonus of keeping touts away.

Thanks to translate.google.com, it's become absolutely easy to solve immediate travel problems on the fly. I wish I had that resource in my youth -- back then, we had to learn enough of another language to be able to ask and receive directions.

Again, you resort to insults to trash my perspective, just because I don't share yours.

The poster asked for input, you provided it, as did I, they are quite capable to working out what works for them.

I don't agree with you.

 

[ScoopKona]

I don't agree with you.

Another thing we don't agree on is "what constitutes an insult."

Warning people to stay away from police in Europe because "reasons" is ridiculous. Police aren't killing people on street corners in Lisbon for selling loose cigarettes, after all. Compared to the United States, police in Europe are positively jovial.

Mexico is infamous for having some surly police officers. Last time I asked an officer for directions in Mexicali, he drove me to my destination "because I'm heading that way, anyway."

Like everything else in life, you get what you give, mostly.

 

[vikingsholm]

One more question: Car rentals. How is Europcar, Budget, Enterprise or Hertz ok in Portugal? We had a terrible experience at Inverness airport, Scotland with Hertz UK. Are the roads decent? Wider than the UK? Any gotchas?

We started in Lisbon, took a cab to hotel and went without a car for the first 3-4 days. Then cab back to the airport, picked up a rental car, and drove to Porto, then Sintra, then the Algarve. Worked great except a 6 lane roundabout coming out of the airport with multiple traffic lights confused the hell out of me, and I ran a red on about the 4th of six roundabout lanes, and got honked at but made it out unscathed. A nav device built into the car is usually worth it for us in Europe, even when we have it on our cellphones.

We had a car in Sintra because we stayed there a few days, but if you can take transit over there from Lisbon then back in a day, it's probably preferable. The roads between major areas like Lisbon to Porto, Sintra to Algarve, etc, were a breeze.