Sunset Harbor v Kaanapali

[Kal]

I have spent many years enjoying HSH and as I am now enjoying HKB, it's interesting to see what Hyatt has learned from 1995 to 2015. The features at HKB are absolutely remarkable. Everywhere you look you see their learning experence. HKB is probably what Hyatt promised HSH buyers how the Vacation Club would grow with MANY new properties over time. Windward was a wonderful example of quality growth in its time. But after HKB, the whole vision ended.

As always, money became the driving force where there would be no new resorts and they sold the company. Now its a game of hucksters selling points and making every effort to fleece week owners out of their deeds. I'm now at HKB about ready to enjoy the huckster clown show. This is the only place where weeks are still sold and I will be curious if they even mention Portfolio. I can't wait to hand them the current list of Redweek units for sale and see how they churn WOH points and a ton of cash as the better way to go. Of course they will say ROFR will mean the buyer will never get the deal. What fun! However, I will receive $200 to reward me for my pain and suffering to sit thru the sporting event.

 

[ScoopKona]

Hyatt's timidity about developing more property is surely what led to the eventual sale.

There are dozens of places that are a perfect fit for the Vacation Club turned Residence Club turned back into Vacation Club. It was always the biggest gripe about the company when I worked there. Vermont, for instance -- winter season, fall season and summer season. No problems there. Asheville. Islamorada. California wine country. That market absolutely needs more options.

And for a country with such a big global footprint, they sure had no stomach for developing in the European cultural cities. I'm told the Pritzkers only reluctantly green-lit the project and were never fully on board. (Not so with Conrad Hilton, who bought a unit at his first timeshare resort and actually used it for a long time. If he wasn't the absolute first timeshare owner in the US, he was at least one of the first five.)

 

[Kal]

I Have Survived! A very pleasent event. No BS whatsoever. I was the first to mention Portfolio and the rep held his nose and said he does not speak anything negative about the dead.

I learned:
- HKB is 85% sold out
- All HKB units taken by ROFR go back into HKB inventory and NOT into Portfolio. They need the additional weeks inventory.
- Owner occupancy is extremely high.
- If owners do not use their unit, they rent it and do not turn it into the HVC pool
- Retail price for EOY, 2BR, floating week, top floor band = $56,460
- Price to HVC owner = $43,300

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

I Have Survived! A very pleasent event. No BS whatsoever. I was the first to mention Portfolio and the rep held his nose and said he does not speak anything negative about the dead.

I learned:
- HKB is 85% sold out
- All HKB units taken by ROFR go back into HKB inventory and NOT into Portfolio. They need the additional weeks inventory.
- Owner occupancy is extremely high.
- If owners do not use their unit, they rent it and do not turn it into the HVC pool
- Retail price for EOY, 2BR, floating week, top floor band = $56,460
- Price to HVC owner = $43,300

View attachment 89783

I find their presentations to be pretty reputable . They will eventually be selling portfolio when they are sold out though.

 

[ScoopKona]

I find their presentations to be pretty reputable .

Every Hyatt was once like this. The numbers work. And most people either see it or they don't.

 

[Kal]

I find their presentations to be pretty reputable . They will eventually be selling portfolio when they are sold out though.

I pressed that point and was told, no. Once the deeds are all sold, they can't sell "blue sky" portfolio. I suggested the developer might try Portfolio, and they said once the deeds are all sold, the developer is done. Hyatt is just the management company for a fee. The HOA is then in control.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

I pressed that point and was told, no. Once the deeds are all sold, they can't sell "blue sky" portfolio. I suggested the developer might try Portfolio, and they said once the deeds are all sold, the developer is done. Hyatt is just the management company for a fee. The HOA is then in control.

This must be new. We went to a presentation in Feb and were told that 7 units would be placed into Portfolio and they would be selling Portfolio. I'm glad this isn't in the plans now but time will tell. They get most of their sales from the hotel where guests are paying high prices for their rooms

 

[ScoopKona]

They get most of their sales from the hotel where guests are paying high prices for their rooms

This has been the case since Sunset Harbor. [Defecating] on timeshare developers and salespeople is pretty-much a sport here. But resorts like HKB basically sell themselves -- the people who buy are spending the money anyway. And the time-honored advice of "buy resale" doesn't work when there are no resales to buy. In order for us to have places to trade into, the business model has to keep chugging along. Based on what's happening in the industry, I don't think we're going to be discussing timeshares for very much longer.

The band is playing, and the drinks are still flowing. But the ship hit an iceberg roughly 10 years ago -- and is moving in circles while we wait for the inevitable.

 

[Kal]

This must be new. We went to a presentation in Feb and were told that 7 units would be placed into Portfolio and they would be selling Portfolio. I'm glad this isn't in the plans now but time will tell. They get most of their sales from the hotel where guests are paying high prices for their rooms

The only way a unit could be placed into Portfolio would be for the unit owner to give their deed to Portfolio. That would make no sense as the resale value is very high amd the rental $ would be considerable. Hyatt is the management company and has no function in transfering a deed.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

The only way a unit could be placed into Portfolio would be for the unit owner to give their deed to Portfolio. That would make no sense as the resale value is very high amd the rental $ would be considerable. Hyatt is the management company and has no function in transfering a deed.

We were told that 7 unsold units would become portfolio units by our salesman. I questioned how this could significantly increase maintenance fees but they claimed 7 units would not be a large enough amount to make a substantial difference.

 

[Kal]

We were told that 7 unsold units would become portfolio units by our salesman. I questioned how this could significantly increase maintenance fees but they claimed 7 units would not be a large enough amount to make a substantial difference.

There are 131 units at HKB. If such a thing occured, Portfolio would pay the maintenance fees for any units they hold. Thus, no impact on any resort.

 

[Kal]

We were told that 7 unsold units would become portfolio units by our salesman. I questioned how this could significantly increase maintenance fees but they claimed 7 units would not be a large enough amount to make a substantial difference.

Thinking thru that 7 unit number, that's 7 unit weeks out of a total 6,800 unit weeks for the resort. It would not even make a ripple in the pond. Of course Portfolio could step up and buy any unit week just like anyone on the street. That arithmetic wouldn't even work in the Portfolio system where they fleece units from HVC owners.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

Thinking thru that 7 unit number, that's 7 unit weeks out of a total 6,800 unit weeks for the resort. It would not even make a ripple in the pond. Of course Portfolio could step up and buy any unit week just like anyone on the street. That arithmetic wouldn't even work in the Portfolio system where they fleece units from HVC owners.

Yes . My concern is unknowlegable folks might buy portfolio when they are told it's a way to get to stay at Kaanapali Residences. Most salesmen won't mention how little inventory there is there.

 

[Norcal5]

Thinking thru that 7 unit number, that's 7 unit weeks out of a total 6,800 unit weeks for the resort. It would not even make a ripple in the pond. Of course Portfolio could step up and buy any unit week just like anyone on the street. That arithmetic wouldn't even work in the Portfolio system where they fleece units from HVC owners.

I would think they're talking about 7 units, not unit weeks, so 364 unit weeks (7 x 52 = 364).

 

[Kal]

I would think they're talking about 7 units, not unit weeks, so 364 unit weeks (7 x 52 = 364).

The system is far more complicated to provide 7 specific units for the entire year. They operate on a "floor band" basis and not a specific unit week. An owner is not guaranteed the right to occupy a specific unit, but rather to occupy a unit in the floor band they own. Thus, they cannot give away a specific unit for every week of the year. The deeding process would be impossible.

 

[Sapper]

The system is far more complicated to provide 7 specific units for the entire year. They operate on a "floor band" basis and not a specific unit week. An owner is not guaranteed the right to occupy a specific unit, but rather to occupy a unit in the floor band they own. Thus, they cannot give away a specific unit for every week of the year. The deeding process would be impossible.

Sure they could, they just say that a particular unit is only available to those who book using portfolio points. My guess is you could do the same thing, just tell the timeshare sales guy that you will pay $2.6 million plus Apx $200k per year in maintenance fees, but it needs to be a fixed unit, and watch how fast they figure it out.

 

[Kal]

Sure they could, they just say that a particular unit is only available to those who book using portfolio points. My guess is you could do the same thing, just tell the timeshare sales guy that you will pay $2.6 million plus Apx $200k per year in maintenance fees, but it needs to be a fixed unit, and watch how fast they figure it out.

Another factoid is an owner deed specifies a specific unit. Given that the resort has sold almost 5,800 deeded fixed units (out of 6,800), it would be very highly unlikely there is a single unit which spans 52 weeks that is not deeded. Any notion that the "7 units" includes 52 weeks each is looney tunes. It would be like an easter egg hunt.

 

[Sapper]

Another factoid is an owner deed specifies a specific unit. Given that the resort has sold almost 5,800 deeded fixed units (out of 6,800), it would be very highly unlikely there is a single unit which spans 52 weeks that is not deeded. Any notion that the "7 units" includes 52 weeks each is looney tunes. It would be like an easter egg hunt.

Kal, it’s all a shell game. The deeded unit number does not matter because they are assigned based on the floor bands.

 

[Kal]

Kal, it’s all a shell game. The deeded unit number does not matter because they are assigned based on the floor bands.

Be careful when you compare deeded units to occupy units. The owner's deed (such as my own) specifies an exact unit but has no right to occupy that unit. The criteria is the right to occupy a unit in that floor band. The only point I'm making is Hyatt cannot sell those deeded units to anyone. It would require the deeded owner to sell it. This resort is very unique in that outsiders can purchase and own property in Maui (HKB).

It's a nice "shell game" unlike other resorts in the Hyatt system. If you want a very specific unit in your floor band, there are steps available to maximize the odds in getting that unit, but no guarantees.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

Wendy from the Hyatt Facebook group reached out to the corporate office and was told that no official decision has been announced about the 7 units and it was under deliberation. It will probably be another year and a half before they are sold out and these units are converted.

 

[Kal]

The HKB sales office is highly polished and very effective. The resort sells itself and they don't need to lie or act like a huckster. It's the highest rated timeshare on Kaanapali. We walked thru the Marriott Sales area and it was old school hucksters selling points. Not at all enticing.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

The HKB sales office is highly polished and very effective. The resort sells itself and they don't need to lie or act like a huckster. It's the highest rated timeshare on Kaanapali. We walked thru the Marriott Sales area and it was old school hucksters selling points. Not at all enticing.

I agree. We are always treated well there and folks seem in high integrity. It is how Hyatt used to be. I would be tempted to buy but the maintenance fees increased a lot this yr. It will be interesting to see if this continues every yr

 

[Kal]

You're correct, the MF are a big bite. It just becomes a matter of what are the going rates to stay on Kaanapali. The property is extremely well designed and furnished. Bosch appliances is not typical of other HVC resorts. Kihei is an alternate but a totally different situation to save some coin.

 

[Kal]

The resort manager provided me with an interesting spreadsheet that lists every single unit for Week 10. It shows all kinds of information about the assignment of units, the requested unit(s) and more about the occupant. I'm analyzing the info to summarize what I have learned.

 

[Islander7]

Wendy from the Hyatt Facebook group reached out to the corporate office and was told that no official decision has been announced about the 7 units and it was under deliberation. It will probably be another year and a half before they are sold out and these units are converted.

Looks like at least one week has made it into Portfolio.