Timeshare Math

[letsgobobby]

Resale is about 10% of retail. We have paid about the same amount ($27,342) for 93,120 resale points (HGVC).

bottom line.

why pay $27,000 for 5450 points when you can pay $27,000 for 90,000 points?

the end

 

[Yzfguy06]

I'm typically only on here twice a day. In the morning and in the evening. OP may be the same?

 

[Dalmation]

Hello everyone just getting to all these messages now. Thank you this is immensely valuable information. Artringwald THANK YOU FOR LOOKING THAT UP as that does not match what the rep showed me about what that 1 bedroom that specific week would cost! Using the correct point value and the "yield" is a lot worse hence why they plummet after being bought at retail. I still think the "yield" on resale appears very good but am going to do further research now given I need to completely ignore whatever the company is saying.

 

[jacknsara]

Hello everyone just getting to all these messages now. Thank you this is immensely valuable information. Artringwald THANK YOU FOR LOOKING THAT UP as that does not match what the rep showed me about what that 1 bedroom that specific week would cost! Using the correct point value and the "yield" is a lot worse hence why they plummet after being bought at retail. I still think the "yield" on resale appears very good but am going to do further research now given I need to completely ignore whatever the company is saying.

Dalmation
Congratulations on finding TUG in what appears to be in time to avoid buyers remorse.
While timeshares may not be best for everyone, it appears they may be good for you.
Take your time and learn which system might best suit your needs through the lifecycle of ownership.
With exception so rare that I don't personally know of any, it always makes more financial sense to buy resale than retail.
BTW - there is no need to buy to begin to check them out. There are rental opportunities (TUG, Redweek, etc) that enable you to explore more than one system before deciding which you like best.
Jack

 

[StaceyM]

Hello everyone just getting to all these messages now. Thank you this is immensely valuable information. Artringwald THANK YOU FOR LOOKING THAT UP as that does not match what the rep showed me about what that 1 bedroom that specific week would cost! Using the correct point value and the "yield" is a lot worse hence why they plummet after being bought at retail. I still think the "yield" on resale appears very good but am going to do further research now given I need to completely ignore whatever the company is saying.

The math problem you would model is:
1. Deposit $27,000 in a fairly stable/accessible investment. Savings accounts are paying 5% right now, so what are conservative investments returning annually?
2. Add $1400 to that account every year.
3. Use that account to spend a realistic amount on a vacation lodging for a week. Use $4300 if that's realistic, but when I check VRBO for the Nov 8-15 dates mentioned above, I see rates around $2000.

Consider this: There are people who pay $1400 in Maintenance fees for that resort every year who are probably trying to rent at a small profit or breakeven on VRBO or Redweek or GoKoala because they can't use it this year. So $2000 is not unrealistic.

So by my math you paid $27000 initially, then $1400 per year to book a $2000 vacation week, saving you $600 per year without consider loss of interest, loss of flexibility, life changes, family event where you can't travel when you want next year, etc. I'm too lazy to get my financial calculator (i.e. my husband) so I'll leave you to calculate the yield.

The 90,000 points for $27000 deal someone mentioned upthread sounds a lot better, depending on maintenance fees.

 

[Talent312]

My apologies for suggesting you could be a troll.
Clearly, you have legitimate concerns, but these
days, one needs to be alert to that sort of thing.

 

[pedro47]

I tried booking the Chetola Resort in November through the Diamond/Hilton Vacation Club web site, and the only week available was 11/8 to 11/15, one bedroom for 6,000 points. You really can't believe what any sales rep tells you. Rarely should you buy from the developer (like I did for my first purchase). My next two purchases were resale at a fraction of the price, and 95% of the benefits.

View attachment 89633

To the OP, how many points were you planning on purchasing for X numbers of dollars. You cannot even booked a one bedroom timeshare unit at the Chetola Resort.

 

[RX8]

but am going to do further research now

So many people dive right in to timesharing paying tens of thousands without fully understanding what they are buying. They usually end up feeling scammed and will bad mouth timeshares to anyone who will listen. Congrats for asking questions and slowing down.

Your research can start right here. Read the many threads on TUG. If you pay $15/year (or $30/for three years) to become a TUG member you would then have access to resort reviews. I don’t think there is anywhere else where you can get almost immediate expert advice for just 4 cents a day. While you do your research, also check out the last minute rentals to take a “test drive” of different resorts and systems. Here you will find many bargains if you can travel on short notice.

I became a TUG member a full year and a half before I bought my first timeshare. All that research and advice allowed me to make a purchase that I have zero regrets about.

Last Minute Discounted Timeshare Rentals Offered

Rentals of actual resort time (not points) with start dates 45 days or less into the future and Maximum rental rate $800/week or $115/day. Rentals more than 45 days out should be placed in the regular TUG Timeshare Marketplace.

tugbbs.com

 

[Arusso]

The math problem you would model is:
1. Deposit $27,000 in a fairly stable/accessible investment. Savings accounts are paying 5% right now, so what are conservative investments returning annually?
2. Add $1400 to that account every year.
3. Use that account to spend a realistic amount on a vacation lodging for a week. Use $4300 if that's realistic, but when I check VRBO for the Nov 8-15 dates mentioned above, I see rates around $2000.

Consider this: There are people who pay $1400 in Maintenance fees for that resort every year who are probably trying to rent at a small profit or breakeven on VRBO or Redweek or GoKoala because they can't use it this year. So $2000 is not unrealistic.

So by my math you paid $27000 initially, then $1400 per year to book a $2000 vacation week, saving you $600 per year without consider loss of interest, loss of flexibility, life changes, family event where you can't travel when you want next year, etc. I'm too lazy to get my financial calculator (i.e. my husband) so I'll leave you to calculate the yield.

The 90,000 points for $27000 deal someone mentioned upthread sounds a lot better, depending on maintenance fees.

In the days before the internet and even the the early days, it was nearly impossible to access condo living in resort locations. Therefore, purchasing a TS made sense for families. The developer was the only option. Deeds only and no resales and points had not been invented yet. Fast forward to today. There are myriad options and choices.

The most cost effective one is, as you mentioned is to simply rent from an existing owner in a location of your choice. No initial outlay of capital required nor any recurring costs. This latter fact is often totally overlooked during a purchasing consideration whether it is during a sales presentation when someone is attempting to discern the veracity of the salesperson's presentation or just browsing the internet for resales in the comfort of one's own home. Depending on someone's personal situations, it may make NO sense to incur any ownership interest at all.

If an interested party finds the appropriate branded system to meet their needs, there is no reason to pay retail for a deeded property or points when the market value for both is determined by the resale value. I used that very analysis to completely dismantle a salesperson's pitch who suggested I pay $10.00/pt when those same points were being purchased resale for $0.20/pt........!

 

[brp]

If an interested party finds the appropriate branded system to meet their needs, there is no reason to pay retail for a deeded property or points when the market value for both is determined by the resale value.

With the possible exception of DVC where the resale value rivals the retail value and the perks are different depending upon which one buys. For the specific case of HGVC, though, this is certainly true.

Cheers.

 

[Arusso]

With the possible exception of DVC where the resale value rivals the retail value and the perks are different depending upon which one buys. For the specific case of HGVC, though, this is certainly true.

Cheers.

Yes, of course. DVC is the only exception. I could never understand why the other branded companies in the industry did not replicate Disney's model which retains value albeit with a price.

 

[elaine]

Yes, of course. DVC is the only exception. I could never understand why the other branded companies in the industry did not replicate Disney's model which retains value albeit with a price.

I don't think that they can replicate it. DVC has a unique amenity--right on property with added perks (multiple free transport options at all parks, early admission to parks, etc.), highly liquid resale market with lots of demand, and a cult-like following on a dedicated BB (disboards.com).
Just look at competitors, which are all very nice timeshares--Bonnet Creek (same location--arguable similar quality) and HGVC, Marriotts (further away from WDW, arguably better quality)--resale values are much less. I've stayed at all, and the space, esp. 3 BR HGVCS, is great for a fraction of the price. However, family almost always chooses DVC, even if squeezed into smaller units.
Even Marco Island (or Sanibel before the hurricane) does not have the resale value of DVC. They are gorgeous oceanfront settings, in a limited supply destination, where nightly room rates are crazy. That makes no sense to me.

 

[pedro47]

I agree DVC is so difference because it have the Disney Parks and Resorts. Plus, they have the Disney Cruise Lines.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

My apologies for suggesting you could be a troll.

it is funny the range of reactions these get. THis is one of the few that sounded definitely real to me.
90% of them I think are too wild to be true, so they must be trolling ... but alas some or most of those are true.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

Hello everyone just getting to all these messages now. Thank you this is immensely valuable information. Artringwald THANK YOU FOR LOOKING THAT UP as that does not match what the rep showed me about what that 1 bedroom that specific week would cost! Using the correct point value and the "yield" is a lot worse hence why they plummet after being bought at retail. I still think the "yield" on resale appears very good but am going to do further research now given I need to completely ignore whatever the company is saying.

Stacey & Arusso gave you what you need. I'm sure you can take it from there.

 

[Venter]

I have question. Excuse me if it has been answered before.

Now that HGVC are selling HVC(DRI) points, are they still part of a system(i.e. Hawaiian collection), or can those points be used anywhere within HVC at 12 months? If there are no 'collections', then are the MFs now averaged across the board when you buy new points?

 

[HuskerATL]

I have question. Excuse me if it has been answered before.

Now that HGVC are selling HVC(DRI) points, are they still part of a system(i.e. Hawaiian collection), or can those points be used anywhere within HVC at 12 months? If there are no 'collections', then are the MFs now averaged across the board when you buy new points?

Still part of a collection

 

[artringwald]

I have question. Excuse me if it has been answered before.

Now that HGVC are selling HVC(DRI) points, are they still part of a system(i.e. Hawaiian collection), or can those points be used anywhere within HVC at 12 months? If there are no 'collections', then are the MFs now averaged across the board when you buy new points?

I don't think HGVC is selling HVC(DRI) points. If you want access to the DRI collections, I think you have to buy into their HGV Max program.

 

[HuskerATL]

I don't think HGVC is selling HVC(DRI) points. If you want access to the DRI collections, I think you have to buy into their HGV Max program.

That is buying into DRI/HVC. Max is just a program in top of your ownership. You are on The Club with Max.

 

[Venter]

Hilton Vacation Club - Diamond Resorts

Discussions about Hilton Vacation Club Timeshare system and previous Diamond Resorts ownerships/timeshares

tugbbs.com

This made me believe that DRI is now HVC?

 

[artringwald]

Hilton Vacation Club - Diamond Resorts

Discussions about Hilton Vacation Club Timeshare system and previous Diamond Resorts ownerships/timeshares

tugbbs.com

This made me believe that DRI is now HVC?

That is true. The sign at the front of the Point at Poipu confirms it.

 

[brp]

...and a cult-like following on a dedicated BB (disboards.com).

As well as a much more friendly BB (magicowners.com) where the moderators are not dicks.

Cheers.

 

[trippka]

That is buying into DRI/HVC. Max is just a program in top of your ownership. You are on The Club with Max.

You can buy on both sides and theoretically move points between the two companies. Several folks have posted that they have been successful in moving Diamond Resorts points to Hilton for HGVC reservations. I have not done it personally, but I own at Cabo Azul and Hilton W 57th St. So far I have used the points where I own them. They did let me use my Diamond point level to be Centum+ on the Hilton side.

 

[Dalmation]

Thank you again everyone and this also gave me a very good sense of what I should do before buying resale and I have signed up for TUG membership.

 

[brp]

Thank you again everyone and this also gave me a very good sense of what I should do before buying resale and I have signed up for TUG membership.

Welcome aboard. This is a great group with a lot to share. Stick around and learn how to make the most of this system. Before you know it, you'll be sharing your wisdom with new members going forward.

Cheers.