TUG promotes the sale of timshares for $1

[chriskre]

How the heck can a fair (no upfront fee ) licenced reseller of timeshares compete with free?

By focusing on timeshares that people want.
There is no point trying to sell something worth only $1 so move onto those few TS's that have value.

I've purchased almost all my TS's close to my home resale and with this opportunity in the market to re-allocate my portfolio I have not had a problem finding a grateful new owner of my $1 TS's. You don't have to give them away on the internet, you'd be surprised at how some of your friends may want your unwanted TS. For many getting away for a week is all the vacation time they get and if it's close to home, then all the better. Staycations are in vogue right now. I guess it helps if your TS is on the beach or a lake or something of interest.

I just helped a friend "sell" her TS in Orlando on ebay for $1.00. She's just happy that she doesn't have to make another MF payment. It is what it is. Dump that unwanted puppy and cut your losses while you still can or next year you'll be in the same boat. :deadhorse:

 

[JudyS]

TUG is not the reason that many timeshares are selling for $1. Other places such as eBay were loaded with $1 timeshares before TUG ever set up the TUG "Bargain Deals" board.

Originally, TUG did not have a "Bargain Deals" section on its discussion board, nor did it have a "Bargain Basement" section on its Marketplace (ad) section. But in the past few years, the US has been hit by a serious recession and many people want out from their timeshares. The "Bargain Deals" and "Bargain Basement" sections are designed to help owners with that, while hopefully finding a great deal for someone who wants to get in to timesharing.

Since you mention Carriage Hills, maybe you live in Canada, which has largely been spared the effects of the recent worldwide recession. Believe me, there are many people in the US who can no longer afford the annual fees on their timeshares. TUG is trying to help them out.

 

[DeniseM]

First, my adult children cannot plan far enough in advance and wouldn't want the annual fee. In addition, timeshares just aren't "adventuresome" enough for them. I've offered the use to friends as well, and they aren't interested. I suspect they've heard too many negatives about timeshares and I'm not interested in educating friends or having to convince them to use something that I've prepaid. It just isn't worth effort. I'd consider giving them to a charity, but I don't think many charities still accept them. We used to have a TUG member that formed a charitable group of some kind....but, I don't remember her name and don't know if it's still an active charity, or not. Giving them to a stranger that could afford to pay a little something, but would rather have them for "free" just doesn't sit well with me. More deserving folks just couldn't afford the continuing maintenance fee.

As far as usage goes, there is potential liability in offering the usage of a week to an unknown individual.

So you are saying that you would rather continue to pay the maintenance fees for timeshares that you don't want, and don't use, rather than let someone else use them - either for just a week or permanently. Is that what you really want?

Even if you can't bear to let go of them for free, there are reputable charities out there like the Make A Wish foundation, and military family charities, that would love the donation of just the usage (not ownership) of your timeshares. Wouldn't you feel better about doing that, than just letting them sit empty and unused, while you pay the bill?

Regarding liability- Are you aware that almost all timeshares require all guests to provide a credit card at check-in and any fees or damages go on that card? Think about all the TS's that are used by guests every year - either as renters or exchangers.

One note - You are correct - there are NO charities that will take your timeshare for free - most will charge you several thousand dollars, which makes giving it away to an individual look a lot more attractive.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The OP's rant is woefully naive.

Yes, you were duped. Many of us were duped at least once.

What can you do about it? Use the timeshare and enjoy it, and if you want more weeks to use, those $1 timeshares are very appealing.

Whose fault is it that timeshare is not worth anything near what you paid for it? It's the developer's. It's the pushy salespeople, the entire sales pitch, and the gift you accepted at the time you booked that presentation. Marketing a timeshare is expensive for the developer, but they make out alright in the end, believe me.

If you think TUG is a nasty place that devalues what you own, you need to place your blame elsewhere.

I know of a few companies who would say your timeshare is worth a lot less than nothing. They will charge you $3,500 or more to relieve you of your timeshare. That makes a timeshare have negative value. Once a fool, always a fool. That is how those companies feel about you, as a retail buyer of a timeshare. They think you are nothing short of stupid for falling for the developer's pitch.

Use your timeshare and enjoy it. Don't come to TUG and complain about the $1 timeshare. We have known a long time about the $1 timeshare, but I can tell you that the same timeshares now selling for $1 were not just $1 five years ago. The economy has really hurt the value, but TUG has no responsibility in the loss of value.

 

[Mel]

Actually, the people to blame most for the $1 resales are the people (as a group) who are selling them. Many of them paid good money for their timeshares, not really understanding what they were buying, then didn't figure out how to use them properly. When they decided they didn't really want them, because they couldn't make them work the way they wanted, they set their resale price too high. When it didn't sell for that price, they decided it was worthless, or even paid someone else (a PCC) to take it off their hands.

Would anyone do the same with a regular house? No - I've seen houses sit on the market for 2 years, even when they were unoccupied, and the owner still paid property taxes and insurance that whole time, so they were losing money!

Yes, the original prices are jacked way up to pay marketing costs, but that doesn't mean resellers should give up and give them away.

Then there's the maintenance fees. There are two major issues that drive maintenance fees up very quickly. One of them is deadbeats - people who stop paying maintenance fees because they don't plan to use their timeshare, and don't consider that they are driving everyone else's cost up as a result (most honestly think it's the developer who loses). This must be dealt with by swift action on the HOA's part, to get those weeks into the hands of people willing to pay the fees. (Incidentally, many of the $1 timeshares used to be $1 to take over the payments, so they were not as cheep as they looked).

The other issue is fees that were set too low for many years, resulting in poor maintenance. At some point, it catches up to you, and you have to maintain the resort. The choice becomes one of major assessment, significantly increased fees over several years (and a slower schedule to refurbish everything). Owners want low fees, but the reality is that those fees pay to maintain our property. Would you put off those same maintenance issues with your main home? Would you put up with your landlord putting them off?

With the economy the way it is right now, many owners are feeling pinched, and the short term solution is to get rid of the maintenance fees, as quickly as they can. It's a very shortsighted plan, because it ignores the whole reason for purchasing the timeshare in the first place. In the short term, it is cheaper to get a rental for less than the maintenance fees. But once the economy recovers, ownership will once again be the best option for many of us - though not all. Timeshare ownership is much like home ownership - a great thing, for the right demographic - those who might otherwise purchase a summer home on the beach, or who are already going to spend the money on vacations. It's not for those whose income stream was never stable, and who have a good chance of finding themselves living month-to-month.

 

[Wonka]

So you are saying that you would rather continue to pay the maintenance fees for timeshares that you don't want, and don't use, rather than let someone else use them - either for just a week or permanently. Is that what you really want?

Even if you can't bear to let go of them for free, there are reputable charities out there like the Make A Wish foundation, and military family charities, that would love the donation of just the usage (not ownership) of your timeshares. Wouldn't you feel better about doing that, than just letting them sit empty and unused, while you pay the bill?

Regarding liability- Are you aware that almost all timeshares require all guests to provide a credit card at check-in and any fees or damages go on that card? Think about all the TS's that are used by guests every year - either as renters or exchangers.

One note - You are correct - there are NO charities that will take your timeshare for free - most will charge you several thousand dollars, which makes giving it away to an individual look a lot more attractive.

I believe I indicated I'd consider letting a charity use the week, but the credit card simply lessens the risk exposure. I don't believe it eliminates the risk. I'd consider letting a deserving, person in need use the week if the risk can be fully avoided. What I've said is I won't give the weeks away to anyone that can well afford to pay a little something but would prefer to get something for nothing. I'm sure you've heard the old saying "people want something for nothing". In my opinion, (which it appears isn't yours) itt seems like there are too many folks like that these days.

 

[Mel]

Correct. A renter`s credit card deposit does not protect you fully. Most resorts will go afteryour renter first,but if they damage a unit beyond their credit limit, you may find youtself next in line. They have more info about you, and can place a lein on your deed, among other things. At least if you exchange, the exchange company acts as a buffer, and they have deeper pockets.

If someone cannot afford to pay rent, they also cannot afford the liability ifthey damage your property. Plus, people tend to be value your property more when they pay.

 

[stevedmatt]

I didn't take the time to read the entire thread so sorry if this has been said...

2 things:

1. Fair market value. A (insert product here) is worth what someone is willing to pay for it in the venue that the seller chose to use for advertising.

2. Timeshares are just another industry that the educated people take advantage of the uneducated people. It happens in all aspects of business.

In this day and age with all the information around on the internet, it amazes me that people that don't intending to buy anything go to a sales pitch and spend $25,000 on a product that is readily available for $1. They don't even take the time to research their purchase after they make it quickly enough to rescind. I rarely spend over $100 without first researching the product I want to buy.

I don't mean to sound harsh but sometimes reality is harsh.

 

[DeniseM]

Correct. A renter`s credit card deposit does not protect you fully. Most resorts will go afteryour renter first,but if they damage a unit beyond their credit limit, you may find youtself next in line. They have more info about you, and can place a lein on your deed, among other things. At least if you exchange, the exchange company acts as a buffer, and they have deeper pockets.

If someone cannot afford to pay rent, they also cannot afford the liability ifthey damage your property. Plus, people tend to be value your property more when they pay.

What are you basing this opinion on?

 

[pedro47]

The times share industry market primarly to family with income over $50,000 per year and who have high school diploma and college degrees.

 

[Talent312]

I rarely spend over $100 without first researching the product I want to buy.

Many peep, like my DW, are impulse buyers, who tend to buy things that look nice, feel nice and their gut-instinct says is a fair value. But there's the rub. Buying a TS (or any major ticket item) is not like buying shoes... about which my DW is an expert. They have no experience with TS's, so their instinct for crap (can you say "crap" on TUG?) fails them and they accept whatever the salesman says at face-value. Its really kind'a sad.

 

[stevedmatt]

The times share industry market primarly to family with income over $50,000 per year and who have high school diploma and college degrees.

If this is directed toward me, I wasn't referring to education levels in general but education about a certain product/industry.

 

[dougp26364]

Hello!
I am a new member of TUG, but not new to TUG nor am I new to the timeshare industry.
I appreciate that TUG offers this forum and a marketplace, but it seems pointless when TUG is sending out newsletters to celebrate the sale of a
timeshare for $1. I spent a lot of time writing to a person at TUG and this person refuses to see the sense in my points.


This is a email I wrote to TUG. Your comments please.


We just joined TUG thinking that we can find out about a more FAIR and HONEST approach to Timeshares.

We paid very big $$ for Carriage Hills (NEW! in 2003) as we knew Nothing about timeshares. I know that people need to be informed in order to make good choices and to assess the inventory of timeshares that GLUT THE MARKET since people are not informed about the great vacations they can access cheaply in their own back yard. GREAT for low income families!

I fail to see how crowing over people "buying" a timeshare for $1 helps the cause (in the TUG newsletter). Now you have people who were ripped off by the developer trying to sell a timeshare that they paid so much for and TUG creating a non-market by making a big deal over all the timeshares for sale by desperate people for a $1. Is this just and fair, if so to WHOM?

What is the point of setting up a market place to sell timeshares when people (thanks to TUG advertising the $1 timeshare) expect to get a timeshare for literally nothing? This is a swing too far the other way.
It is like people not realizing they can buy a car that is used, everyone buying new cars, then suddenly the info about good used cars gets out there. How fair is it to expect the owners to sell the car they bought for 12,000 for a $1 just to be rid of it? How does that make any sense at all!
We had someone email us from the TUG bargain basement , expecting to have legal fees included for our bargain timeshare, for sale at $299.
If more people knew about timeshares, really understood, there would be a fair resale price and much more demand.

I hope TUG will reconsider the goal that TUG has in mind and reassess how to be fair with others and to really help this horribly run timeshare industry by educating people and creating conditions to make a fair resale market, not a race to the bottom to see how low can you go in the timeshare resale!! How the heck can a fair (no upfront fee ) licenced reseller of timeshares compete with free?

let’s try to make sense here.

I'll try to address you're statement directly rather than incorportating all the previous responces.

First, TUG isn't a place that promotes timeshares for $1. It's members are owners who have learned the resale market and are the ones promoting timeshare resales vs buying direct from the developer. Many (most) members on TUG became timeshare owners by making that first purchase from the developer.

Second, timeshare resale is what it is. What is glossed over in the developer presentations is that this isn't the same real estate transaction as buying a house. Our first presentation was "Own a piece of the Las Vegas Strip" (Polo Towers) followed by this is a vacation invetstment, not a real estate transaction. People don't hear the second part but they do hear the first part. It doesn't help when developer sales points out THEIR escalating prices but don't compare it to the depressed resale pricing.

TUG doesn't set the resale pricing or even promote pricing. TUG members report it and by virtue of the fact most have learned not to pay developer pricing, promote resale purchases.

With this bad economy, many timeshare owners have found that timeshare MF's are akin to a huge boulder tied to their ankle's when they're in a sea of debt and having trouble keeping their heads above water. It's times like these when desperation sets in.

First they believe the increasing prices the salesman originally sold them and believe their timeshare has traditional real estate marketability. They often get taken by the sharks promting the idea they can sell that timeshare for a profit but, they want their advertising fee's upfront, after which they're never heard from again. Some will then consider defaulting while others will begin searching, only to learn the bad news that timeshare is worse than buying a new car and seeing it's value plummet as they drive it off the lot.

There has never been a strong market for timeshare resales. People just don't know what they are, it's not somethine one shops for or even something many consider when making vacation plans. It's often to complicated of a product to successfully sell outside of the developer sales floor. When you have a glut of people desperate to get out and no viable resale market or demand for what you have and, when what your trying to sell (or even give away) comes with an ongoing expense equal to what they can rent accomadations for on short notice, it becomes tough to even give a timeshare away. Thus, you're now seeing a glut of timeshares for $1.

Worse yet, you're seeing timeshares for LESS than $1. Some have such little appeal on the resale market that not only are they sold for $1, but the transfer fee's and closing costs are paid for by the seller.

Now consider this, what would the market be like without TUG? There might not be anyone to take on the ongoing expenses of timeshares at any price. Defaults might be considerably higher than they are now, forcing timeshare homeowners assoc. to increase MF's even higher or, worse yet putting more timeshare projects into default and bankruptcy than what we've already seen.

TUG doesn't set or promote resale pricing. The market forces set the price. TUG mearly reports what's going on and helps timeshare owners learn how to use their timeshares (personal vacations, rentals et....) or get rid of their timeshares as best can be done (sell, default or deed back to the HOA or developer as the case may be).

 

[Wonka]

What are you basing this opinion on?

"Needy" doesn't define the character of an individual. But, if one is "needy", it does imply their financial resources are limited, no?

It would seem that Mel is simply indicating if the recipient of "free usage" is "needy" from a financial standpoint, the usage of a credit card may not alleviate the risk.

Denise, you're certainly free to do whatever you'd like with your unused weeks and to give away your timeshares if you'd like. I don't believe not doing so is uncharitable or unconscionable as your post seems to imply. But, I can see your point of view.

Back to the initial thread, I don't believe TUG has contributed greatly to the decline of resale prices or developer prices. When I first joined TUG, you couldn't find the "freebies". Folks discounted their timeshares greatly to move them, but they weren't free (unless they were real trading dogs). The addition of points, trading values, etc. changed all that. In my opinion, all the bragging on TUG about DK trades did result in RCI adjusting the trading value. So, TUG has had an impact on the market to some extent although not the extreme the poster has suggested.

 

[JeffW]

I'd wager ebay has had a lot greater effect on resale prices of anything than TUG, or any other single website.


Jeff

 

[funtime]

I agree with the OP as to one point. Many people see the numerous timeshares for sale for 1.00 on TUG and automaticlaly assume that the bottom has completely dropped out of the market for all timeshares. They then may post a timeshare on TUG for 1.00 for a timeshare that has much better value - these are usually snapped up in a day or two. So, while I have benefited from the TUG bargain board, I would urge those thinking of offloading their timeshares to check first with redweek and ebay and/or other sources to see if there is some value to the timeshare.

Secondly, as to a lot of the 1.00 timeshares on TUG - while they may appear as a bit of a castoff timeshare, the poster often lists the creative trades or other uses they used it for - in other words, it does have some value, primarily as a trader. And, of course, if the new owner lives nearby, other advantages start apearing such as driveability to the resort and/or day use privileges. Funtime

 

[pedro47]

If this is directed toward me, I wasn't referring to education levels in general but education about a certain product/industry.

No!! This is the market that are purchasing time share resorts.

 

[JeffW]

If we're assigning blame, I'll throw a good portion at the developers. To a degree, like what happened with house mortgages over the last decade, part of the sellers responsibility should have been doing some due diligence to make sure the buyers could afford the house/unit for the life of the loan, not just the at purchase time. If that was done, then you don't have all these deperation sales. The reality is that a lot of those trying to get rid of timeshares (if they are still paying for them) probably never should have had them to begin with.

Jeff

 

[Wonka]

I'd wager ebay has had a lot greater effect on resale prices of anything than TUG, or any other single website.


Jeff

You'd easily win that bet! Before the internet and ebay, craigslist, etc., it wasn't easy to find a "used" (resale) timeshare and a 50-60% discount from developer prices seemed like a very good deal.

 

[ampaholic]

Actually I believe TUG members do promote the sale of $1 timeshares - if they are worth $1.

But overall TUG members likely help raise the average sale price of timeshares by actually bidding on them and buying them.

Personally I purchased zero before I joined TUG - while I purchased 7 after I learned what all I could do with them on TUG.

yea TUG

 

[DeniseM]

I don't believe not doing so is uncharitable or unconscionable as your post seems to imply. But, I can see your point of view.

I don't think you have any obligation at all to be charitable with your timeshares, but I do think you are hurting yourself with the stance you have taken. On one hand you seem to say that you hate to see them sitting empty - but on the other hand you seem reluctant to do anything about it.

It is painful for all of us to face the realities of today's timeshare market. Believe me - I know! I bought my first timeshare (pre-TUG) from the developer on Maui and paid $45K Now that timeshare is going for around $10K! On top of that - we prefer to go to Kauai now! So I understand how you feel - but my point is that you have lots of options, even if you can't use your timeshare any more (why aren't you using them?) You don't have to just pay the maintenance fees and let them sit empty - unless you want to. I bet if you started seriously exploring your options, you would find some that are acceptable to you - and even recoup some of your maintenance fees.

Good luck!

 

[Mel]

my post:
A renter`s credit card deposit does not protect you fully. Most resorts will go afteryour renter first,but if they damage a unit beyond their credit limit, you may find youtself next in line. They have more info about you, and can place a lein on your deed, among other things. At least if you exchange, the exchange company acts as a buffer, and they have deeper pockets.

If someone cannot afford to pay rent, they also cannot afford the liability ifthey damage your property. Plus, people tend to be value your property more when they pay.

What are you basing this opinion on?

As Wonka suggested, those of limited resources will not have the resources to have a large available credit limit, should they damage the property, so your liability is increased. But also, when you "rent" for nothing, to someone you don't know, the person renting from you has nothing invested. My experience has been that people who have no investment (monetary or otherwise) don't care as much. They have nothing to lose if they destroy your property.

Obviously, I wouldn't dump all people without resources into one category, but think about what sometimes happens when people lose their house, or are evicted - a portion do serious damage to the property, precisely because they've already "lost everything." Plenty don't, but it is a risk you take.

I would rather rent to someone who offers a small amount as rent, not only because of their "investment" rather than a handout, but also because it protects me. If they pay me rent, we have a contract. If they don't pay rent, I have made a gift - I don't usually give gifts to those I don't know.

 

[DeniseM]

Normally, I would not "rent for nothing" except to family members or friends or Tuggers. I am not suggesting that the OP let random strangers use their timeshare.

That being said, I did let a young military family use one of our timeshares on Hawaii for free, because we couldn't use it or rent it. I didn't even know them - but they have a family member who is a Tugger and they asked me if their kids could use the week when I offered it for free on TUG. They needed a vacation, and I had an empty timeshare - I was much happier about letting them use it - than letting it sit empty.

But, what I was actually suggesting to the OP was donating the usage of just a week at a time to a reputable charity like Make A Wish or one of the Military Family Charities. They have established programs to accept timeshare usage - and liability insurance. AND the recipients of the week will certainly be worthy of their generosity.

To me, it seems like a terrible waste to pay maintenance fees and then let timeshares sit empty when there are MANY other options. Donating the usage to worthy and safe charities is just one option, of many. YMMV

 

[e.bram]

The main reason for $1.00 TSes is high MFs, caused by inefficient and corrupt management. Compare TS MFs with wholly owned condos even after adding the additional complexities of multiple ownership and occupancy.

 

[eleodors]

RF, This is a fair point. The timeshare owners do not have a solid market, therefore the prices are established in a very artisanal way. A market will have a history of sales, and over time prices will converge based on historical prices, vs. spot prices. Spot prices always favor the spot buyers.
A similar market will be someone selling 100 shares of IBM by advertising on eBay, and getting $1 for a share. And then getting beaten up when it complains that the price was unfair.
In reality there is no proper market for TS. I would say RedWeek has the best chance to create one, with all the historical sales data, and rental data, they had accumulated in the last 5 years.
Wouldn't be nice to have a site that can say "a gold week in HHI for Marriott is between 12,500 and 14,200, depending on oceanfront or oceanside view ". (I am not associated in any way with Redweek")

I think RFs hope was that TUG will provide more of a market mechanism. I read his post more "Why is TUG not creating more of a market", vs. the question we all are attracted to answer
"Why are some timeshares sell for €1".
Reality is that, if one community has a chance of creating a viable market for TS, TUG is that community. I have faith in us. I would love that TUG has a vision of becoming a database source of market data, vs. just text information.