- Joined
- Jun 7, 2005
- Messages
- 14,585
- Reaction score
- 5,706
- Points
- 898
- Location
- Los Angeles
- Resorts Owned
-
Westin Kierland
Sheraton Desert Oasis
Let's back up and review this again.
Yet you compare the very expensive 81k week. How extensive was your analysis?
That assumes no resale value of the WKV 2-bed PP week, which I think is quite unrealistic.
Um...no.
It's not quite that simple.
I've listed below the weeks you mention and include the details from the MF database. Note that the SVV Key West 3-bed info is highly suspect and no info exists in the db for 2017. This also assumes this is the first VSN ownership week (and has the requisite $140 annual fee for club membership).
WKV 2-bed Platinum Plus; 148,100 StarOptions
MF: $1,437.98
Tax: $56.79
VSN Club Fee: $140
= $1634.77
Price per 1,000 StarOptions: $11.04
SVV Bella 2-bed Platinum; 81,000 StarOptions
MF: $1,027.07
Tax: $161.99
VSN Club Fee: $140
= $1,329.06
Price per 1,000 StarOptions: $16.41
SVV Key West 2-bed Platinum; 81,000 StarOptions
MF: $990.90
Tax: $153.54
VSN Club Fee: $140
= $1,284.44
Price per 1,000 StarOptions: $15.86
SVV Key West 3-bed Platinum (1-bed Premium & 2, 1-bed units); 139,700 StarOptions
MF: $1782.82
Tax: $297.73 (using 2015 property tax info)
VSN Club Fee: $140 (database shows it at $165 but that doesn't make sense to me)
= $2,220.55
Price per 1,000 StarOptions: $15.89
Normalizing this to 148,100 StarOptions, though this isn't quite practical, the results are:
WKV: $1,634.77
SVV Bella: $2,430.05 ($795.28/year)
SVV Key West 2-bed: $2,348.46 ($713.69/year)
SVV Key West 3-bed (2016): $2,354.07 ($719.30/year)
Unfortunately, I don't think we should rely upon the 3-bed MF from the database. There is only one record for 2015 and 2016 and the data is:
2015
MF: $1,745.72
Property Tax: $297.73
Club Fee: $159
2016
MF: $1,782.82
Proertly Tax: <no data>
Club Fee: $165
Does anyone have access to the 3-bed MF and property tax info so we can validate this entry? I don't think we should rely upon it for this discussion until we confirm the details.
In any case, it should be apparent that WKV is the more affordable long-term purchase. It's also important to consider that WKV has retained its resale value quite well over the years. My original plan was to hold it for 10 years, and I've posted several times details on how my particular ownership has developed and cost since then. I'm into my 12th year now and have no intention of selling anytime soon.
My approach when purchasing is to anticipate a realistic resale value in 10 years and build in the loss/gain to the nightly/annual cost in order to determine which is the best purchase. SVV deeds seem to be quite inexpensive, but I don't follow it closely. What are the current resale rates for these weeks? What did they command 10 years ago?
Let's assume we would lose $5,000 equity in WKV 2-bed PP over 10 years and the SVV deeds are FREE. Based on today's prices, I think it wouldn't be that much loss of value in WKV but none of us know what the value will be in 10 years. Even so, owning WKV for 10-years would save considerably compared to these other resorts, even when the SVV deed is FREE.
Savings owning WKV compared to SVV over 10-years, based on the normalized 1K SOs (which is impractical!):
SVV Bella 2-bed: $2,952.77
SVV Key West 2-bed: $2,136.94
SVV Key West 3-bed (using the database info and likely incorrect): $2,192.99
Or, let's assume a loss of $2,500 equity in WKV 2-bed PP over just five year. The savings for owning WKV instead of these others would be:
Savings owning WKV compared to SVV over 5-years, based on the normalized 1K SOs (which is impractical!):
SVV Bella 2-bed: $1,476.38
SVV Key West 2-bed: $1,068.47
SVV Key West 3-bed (using the database info and likely incorrect): $1,096.50
Update on my own historical MF expenses of my WKV 2-bed PP week:
Total SVN/VSN nights over 12 years (2006-2017): 238
Average nightly cost: $74.38
Assuming a $5,000 loss of equity, my nightly cost increases to $95.37
Actual MF/Tax/SVN fees from 2006-2017: $17,701.96
Average MF/Tax/SVN fees: $1,475.16
Average cost per 1k SOs: $9.96
Sure, SVV may be a good option to test the waters for a new owner but only if they are convinced they will go through the process of selling and buying WKV if they want to have the lowest cost over the long term. Obviously, this approach isn't for everyone, but based on this info it certainly seems to indicate that WKV 2-bed PP is the least expensive method for buying into VSN.
This also assumes the owner will be using the week, not renting it. Obviously the variables for renting are too great to make any easy assumptions. However, renting even just one prime week once in the anticipated 10-year ownership would influence the overall cost.
If I'm incorrect, please update this. It's certainly possible I included an error in my calculations!
I have done a lot of analysis between SVV and WKV.
Yet you compare the very expensive 81k week. How extensive was your analysis?
The difference between the 81K PP 2BR WKV and the 81K Platinum 2BR SVV is only $3.35 per 1000 SOs. So on an annual basis, the MFs at SVV will only cost $271.48 more than if you owned the same amount of SOs at WKV. Given that, if you get real lucky and can pick up the WKV for $12,000, it would take over 40 years before you broke even. This is based on the assumption that the 2BR SVV would cost you $1,000 and you paid an $11,000 premium to have WKV.
Even comparing the best value MF/SO of WKV to the worst value MF/SO at SVV, the break even is near 30 years.
That assumes no resale value of the WKV 2-bed PP week, which I think is quite unrealistic.
Given the above. I simply can't see how it makes sense to buy WKV. The only thing going for it is the rental potential. But if your just buying to use, go for SVV Bella or Key West.
Um...no.
Fair enough. I compared like for like, that is why I went with the 81,000 SOs. Perhaps the number of years would be less as I doubt those sell for $12,000? If anyone knows how much the 1BR Premium WKV sell for, I could provide a more accurate number.
If we look at the 148K 2BR LO PP WKV and compare it to the 3BR LO Platinum SVV Key West. The MF per SO is $4.79 cheaper for the 148K WKV. If you pay the same $11,000 premium to buy WKV, the break even is at 15 years.
It's not quite that simple.
I've listed below the weeks you mention and include the details from the MF database. Note that the SVV Key West 3-bed info is highly suspect and no info exists in the db for 2017. This also assumes this is the first VSN ownership week (and has the requisite $140 annual fee for club membership).
WKV 2-bed Platinum Plus; 148,100 StarOptions
MF: $1,437.98
Tax: $56.79
VSN Club Fee: $140
= $1634.77
Price per 1,000 StarOptions: $11.04
SVV Bella 2-bed Platinum; 81,000 StarOptions
MF: $1,027.07
Tax: $161.99
VSN Club Fee: $140
= $1,329.06
Price per 1,000 StarOptions: $16.41
SVV Key West 2-bed Platinum; 81,000 StarOptions
MF: $990.90
Tax: $153.54
VSN Club Fee: $140
= $1,284.44
Price per 1,000 StarOptions: $15.86
SVV Key West 3-bed Platinum (1-bed Premium & 2, 1-bed units); 139,700 StarOptions
MF: $1782.82
Tax: $297.73 (using 2015 property tax info)
VSN Club Fee: $140 (database shows it at $165 but that doesn't make sense to me)
= $2,220.55
Price per 1,000 StarOptions: $15.89
Normalizing this to 148,100 StarOptions, though this isn't quite practical, the results are:
WKV: $1,634.77
SVV Bella: $2,430.05 ($795.28/year)
SVV Key West 2-bed: $2,348.46 ($713.69/year)
SVV Key West 3-bed (2016): $2,354.07 ($719.30/year)
Unfortunately, I don't think we should rely upon the 3-bed MF from the database. There is only one record for 2015 and 2016 and the data is:
2015
MF: $1,745.72
Property Tax: $297.73
Club Fee: $159
2016
MF: $1,782.82
Proertly Tax: <no data>
Club Fee: $165
Does anyone have access to the 3-bed MF and property tax info so we can validate this entry? I don't think we should rely upon it for this discussion until we confirm the details.
In any case, it should be apparent that WKV is the more affordable long-term purchase. It's also important to consider that WKV has retained its resale value quite well over the years. My original plan was to hold it for 10 years, and I've posted several times details on how my particular ownership has developed and cost since then. I'm into my 12th year now and have no intention of selling anytime soon.
My approach when purchasing is to anticipate a realistic resale value in 10 years and build in the loss/gain to the nightly/annual cost in order to determine which is the best purchase. SVV deeds seem to be quite inexpensive, but I don't follow it closely. What are the current resale rates for these weeks? What did they command 10 years ago?
Let's assume we would lose $5,000 equity in WKV 2-bed PP over 10 years and the SVV deeds are FREE. Based on today's prices, I think it wouldn't be that much loss of value in WKV but none of us know what the value will be in 10 years. Even so, owning WKV for 10-years would save considerably compared to these other resorts, even when the SVV deed is FREE.
Savings owning WKV compared to SVV over 10-years, based on the normalized 1K SOs (which is impractical!):
SVV Bella 2-bed: $2,952.77
SVV Key West 2-bed: $2,136.94
SVV Key West 3-bed (using the database info and likely incorrect): $2,192.99
Or, let's assume a loss of $2,500 equity in WKV 2-bed PP over just five year. The savings for owning WKV instead of these others would be:
Savings owning WKV compared to SVV over 5-years, based on the normalized 1K SOs (which is impractical!):
SVV Bella 2-bed: $1,476.38
SVV Key West 2-bed: $1,068.47
SVV Key West 3-bed (using the database info and likely incorrect): $1,096.50
Update on my own historical MF expenses of my WKV 2-bed PP week:
Total SVN/VSN nights over 12 years (2006-2017): 238
Average nightly cost: $74.38
Assuming a $5,000 loss of equity, my nightly cost increases to $95.37
Actual MF/Tax/SVN fees from 2006-2017: $17,701.96
Average MF/Tax/SVN fees: $1,475.16
Average cost per 1k SOs: $9.96
Sure, SVV may be a good option to test the waters for a new owner but only if they are convinced they will go through the process of selling and buying WKV if they want to have the lowest cost over the long term. Obviously, this approach isn't for everyone, but based on this info it certainly seems to indicate that WKV 2-bed PP is the least expensive method for buying into VSN.
This also assumes the owner will be using the week, not renting it. Obviously the variables for renting are too great to make any easy assumptions. However, renting even just one prime week once in the anticipated 10-year ownership would influence the overall cost.
If I'm incorrect, please update this. It's certainly possible I included an error in my calculations!
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