• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

When to apply for Social Security- It isn't that simple.

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
28,524
Reaction score
17,301
Points
1,299
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
28,524
Reaction score
17,301
Points
1,299
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
The social security administration will run the numbers for you. Just give them a call or make an appointment at your local office.

Well, you can do that, and appointments are best for sure. Appointments are seldom for that day, or even the current week. You can also do a lot of dealings with SS online at www.ssa.gov/. I get the privilege of filing papers with the local office for my DW, who specializes in SS disability law. Believe it or not, those folks down at the SS office are not just hanging around waiting for someone to wander in with a question. I customarily wait 1 1/2 to 2 hours to get to a clerk to date stamp and initial 3 pieces of paper, take the form apart and hand me one copy. 2 minutes work, maximum.

As I sit there with my Kindle (I learned early), I hear all kinds of people with questions and requests that could easily have been done online.

So, yes, they will run your numbers for you, but they will not tell you when to apply. Jim
 

John Cummings

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,020
Reaction score
80
Points
433
Location
Murrieta, California
When a person applies depends on their personal financial situation as well as predicted life expectancy. I have been drawing my SS full benefits for over 5 years. My wife will be drawing her spousal benefit starting this March.

There is a lot more to it then just payback. My financial adviser had to analyze what effect it would have on my investment portfolio and a lot of other factors. Those sort of things will not be determined by the SS administration or any on-line article as it it very personalized by one's finances.
 

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
28,524
Reaction score
17,301
Points
1,299
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
John, I think the article I linked to- and even the title- indicate that deciding on when to apply requires some thought and perhaps bringing in some outside expertise.

There is so much more I want to say, but TUG rules and good taste caused me to delete a good couple of paragraphs. I'll paraphrase.

Not all TUGgers have financial advisers.... Jim
 

Conan

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,140
Reaction score
596
Points
498
Location
Connecticut
The near-last sentence is of most interest to me:
And there’s this: Once you reach full retirement age, you can choose to take benefits as a spouse, while deferring your own earned benefit until later. So in a two-income marriage where the partners are the same age, one might claim benefits at 66. The other could then claim 50 percent of those benefits as a spouse, while allowing his or her earned benefit to build until 70, buying longevity insurance for both of them.
So assume a couple (George and Martha) where George is, say, two years older then Martha, and they can live on their savings (or just keep working) while seeking to maximize their social security. It's 2011, George is currently 67 and hasn't applied yet; Martha is 65 and hasn't applied for social security either (of course each of them filed for Medicare as they turned 65).

John had he quit work five years ago at age 62 could have started collecting, say $2,000 per month, or even if he didn't quit work he could have started collecting, say $2,300 per month last year at age 66, but he's done neither. Martha has an earnings record of her own but she's also decided to put off applying for her own benefit.

1. In 2012, as soon as Martha attains age 66 (George then being 68), George should "file and suspend" meaning he's still not going to start actually collecting benefits.

2. At the same time (in 2012), Martha applies for 50% of George's available age 68 benefits (remembering he's not actually collecting yet). So if George could have had $2,500 per month at age 68, Martha starts getting $1,250 per month.

[edited to say, point #2 above may only work for Martha if she doesn't have a significant work record of her own - - I've read elsewhere that when Martha's own retirement benefit is greater than 50% of George's, it may not be possible for her to claim the smaller benefit, meaning her only option during George's lifetime is to file for her own benefit at whatever age she chooses to start taking it.]

3. Then in 2014 when George attains age 70 he applies and starts collecting his own benefit (say $3,000 per month) (and per the note above if Martha has a significant work record of her own, maybe the only way for Martha to start getting a benefit separate from George's is to file for her own retirement benefit, as early as age 66 if she was still working, or in 2014 at age 68, 2015 at age 69, or 2016 at age 70).

4. Then in 2016 when Martha attains age 70 if her own retirement benefit at age 70 is, say, $2,000 per month she can file for that if she didn't apply earlier (so together they are collecting $5,000 = George's $3,000 plus Martha's $2,000 per month).

5. Finally, suppose one of them dies five years later, in 2021. If Martha is the one who dies, George continues to get his own $3,000 per month. If George is the one who dies, Martha is allowed to take his benefit in lieu of her own, so the $3,000 continues as her benefit.
 
Last edited:

MuranoJo

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
4,946
Reaction score
186
Points
448
Location
Idaho
This was news to me: After 66, benefits don’t get cut no matter how much you earn. I had always heard any working income would reduce benefits, but didn't realize there was a cut-off date where this would no longer apply.

Thanks for posting this.
 

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
28,524
Reaction score
17,301
Points
1,299
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
After 66, benefits don’t get cut no matter how much you earn.

This is correct and has (as far as I know) always been the case. And frankly, if one is between 62 and 66 and their income dictates that there is a 'penalty' on their SS, once they reach FRA, their SS will increase- not by much probably, but additional income is counted towards benefits.

Jim
 

John Cummings

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,020
Reaction score
80
Points
433
Location
Murrieta, California
Not all TUGgers have financial advisers.... Jim

I realize that. I just meant that in my case my financial adviser had to do some work in evaluating the effects on my investment portfolio.

People that do not have a financial adviser and have investments that they draw income from have to take into account what the overall effect will be by taking SS now or postponing it.
 

John Cummings

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,020
Reaction score
80
Points
433
Location
Murrieta, California
This was news to me: After 66, benefits don’t get cut no matter how much you earn. I had always heard any working income would reduce benefits, but didn't realize there was a cut-off date where this would no longer apply.

Thanks for posting this.

That was my case. I started drawing SS when I reached full retirement age but I continued my business for 2 years afterward.
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,533
Reaction score
7,354
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
It wasn't the focus of the article, but the blanket statement that one should apply for Medicare at age 65 was too simplistic. If one is covered under a group health policy, either their own or their spouses, they may apply for Part A (hospitals) only and defer enrollment in Part B, thus avoiding premiums without penalty, until the group health policy is terminated. There's a special enrollment period that applies.
 

Liz Wolf-Spada

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,094
Reaction score
2
Points
423
Location
Wrightwood, CA
The not being penalized for income earned when you are over 65 (at least it was 65) was passed when Clinton was president to help shore up social security by keeping more people adding to it through working later. My DH used that period of time to make payments and buy his truck.
Liz
 

isisdave

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,764
Reaction score
1,288
Points
548
Location
Evansville IN
Resorts Owned
Marriott Waiohai
Can somebody who has experienced it tell us exactly how and when the benefit is reduced (and restored)? I mean, how, and how often do they find out? Is it on an annual basis? If I make too much this year, how soon is the benefit cut? If I make too much this year and lose my job January 2 of next year, is there some way to tell them to avoid a cut at the worst possible time?

This is one of those questions I just can't frame well enough for Google to find the answer.

Thanks.
 

Conan

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,140
Reaction score
596
Points
498
Location
Connecticut
Can somebody who has experienced it tell us exactly how and when the benefit is reduced (and restored)? I mean, how, and how often do they find out? Is it on an annual basis? If I make too much this year, how soon is the benefit cut? If I make too much this year and lose my job January 2 of next year, is there some way to tell them to avoid a cut at the worst possible time?

This is one of those questions I just can't frame well enough for Google to find the answer.

Thanks.

Their calculator should help:
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/RTeffect.html

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/236/~/effects-of-working-and-receiving-social-security-retirement-benefits
 

bogey21

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
9,455
Reaction score
4,662
Points
649
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
My view is to start collecting as soon as you can. The reason for this is that I believe that somewhere down the road Congress will modify Social Security. When they do I think it unlikely that they will do anything to those already collecting except maybe modifying (to out detriment) its taxability.

I started collecting at age 66; am now 76; and happy with my decision.

George
 

M. Henley

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
359
Reaction score
7
Points
378
Location
Murray, KY
Surviving Spouse

In re: number 5.

Is not a surviving spouse able to collect either his/her own SS benefit, or 1/2 the deceased member's benefit, not the entire benefit amount?

The near-last sentence is of most interest to me: So assume a couple (George and Martha) where George is, say, two years older then Martha, and they can live on their savings (or just keep working) while seeking to maximize their social security. It's 2011, George is currently 67 and hasn't applied yet; Martha is 65 and hasn't applied for social security either (of course each of them filed for Medicare as they turned 65).

John had he quit work five years ago at age 62 could have started collecting, say $2,000 per month, or even if he didn't quit work he could have started collecting, say $2,300 per month last year at age 66, but he's done neither. Martha has an earnings record of her own but she's also decided to put off applying for her own benefit.

1. In 2012, as soon as Martha attains age 66 (George then being 68), George should "file and suspend" meaning he's still not going to start actually collecting benefits.

2. At the same time (in 2012), Martha applies for 50% of George's available age 68 benefits (remembering he's not actually collecting yet). So if George could have had $2,500 per month at age 68, Martha starts getting $1,250 per month.

3. Then in 2014 when George attains age 70 he applies and starts collecting his own benefit (say $3,000 per month) while Martha is still collecting the $1,250 per month (together they are now getting $4,250 per month).

4. Then in 2016 when Martha attains age 70 depending on her earnings record she either continues to collect the $1,250 per month as before or if her own retirement benefit at age 70 is, say, $2,000 per month she can switch to that (so together they are collecting $5,000 = George's $3,000 plus Martha's $2,000 per month).

5. Finally, suppose one of them dies five years later, in 2021. If Martha is the one who dies, George continues to get his own $3,000 per month. If George is the one who dies, Martha is allowed to take his benefit in lieu of her own, so the $3,000 continues as her benefit.

Do you think I've got this right?
 

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
28,524
Reaction score
17,301
Points
1,299
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
In re: number 5.

Is not a surviving spouse able to collect either his/her own SS benefit, or 1/2 the deceased member's benefit, not the entire benefit amount?

Nope. Conan was correct. Surviving spouse gets to choose to collect either one. The choice of one's own or 1/2 the other spouse's is during the lifetimes of both. Jim
 

Fern Modena

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
4,660
Reaction score
4
Points
36
Location
Southern Nevada
And surviving spouses can collect before 62. If you have dependent children or are disabled you can collect at age 50. You can collect at age 60 if you don't.

In my case, collecting on Jerry's social security benefit gives me almost exactly what I would be entitled to under my own account at age 62. If I keep getting benefits on his account until I am age 66, and *then* switch to my account, I will get $500. more a month.

Fern
 

John Cummings

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,020
Reaction score
80
Points
433
Location
Murrieta, California

Conan

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,140
Reaction score
596
Points
498
Location
Connecticut
And surviving spouses can collect before 62. If you have dependent children or are disabled you can collect at age 50. You can collect at age 60 if you don't.

In my case, collecting on Jerry's social security benefit gives me almost exactly what I would be entitled to under my own account at age 62. If I keep getting benefits on his account until I am age 66, and *then* switch to my account, I will get $500. more a month.

Fern

Alternatively, you can get about $1,100 more a month ($500 from 62 to 66 plus another $600 from 66 to 70) if you wait until age 70 to switch. If these are the numbers, then waiting four extra years to switch costs you the 4 * $500 * 12 = $24,000 extra you could have gotten by switching at age 66. So if you wait until age 70 to switch you'll break even at age 73 1/3 (because 3 1/3 * $600 * 12 = $24,000) after which you're ahead of where you'd be if you'd switched at age 66.
 

John Cummings

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,020
Reaction score
80
Points
433
Location
Murrieta, California
Alternatively, you can get about $1,100 more a month ($500 from 62 to 66 plus another $600 from 66 to 70) if you wait until age 70 to switch. If these are the numbers, then waiting four extra years to switch costs you the 4 * $500 * 12 = $24,000 extra you could have gotten by switching at age 66. So if you wait until age 70 to switch you'll break even at age 73 1/3 (because 3 1/3 * $600 * 12 = $24,000) after which you're ahead of where you'd be if you'd switched at age 66.

I don't doubt that your figures are correct. However, unless you are working until age 70, what do you do for income during that period of time? I am assuming that most people have other sources of income than SS. Many people, like myself, have an investment portfolio that provides an income stream. If so, one has to take into account the effect on their investments by withdrawing the money to make up for not receiving SS. It is a quite personalized matter so there isn't one size fits all.
 

Conan

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,140
Reaction score
596
Points
498
Location
Connecticut
I don't doubt that your figures are correct. However, unless you are working until age 70, what do you do for income during that period of time? I am assuming that most people have other sources of income than SS. Many people, like myself, have an investment portfolio that provides an income stream. If so, one has to take into account the effect on their investments by withdrawing the money to make up for not receiving SS. It is a quite personalized matter so there isn't one size fits all.

Fern explained that she's already getting Jerry's benefit; the question is at what age to start collecting her own benefit in its place.
 

Fern Modena

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
4,660
Reaction score
4
Points
36
Location
Southern Nevada
Given various factors including health challenges, I'd probably take the money and run at 66. But each person is different.

And yes, John, I did get 100% of the benefit Jerry was receiving at the time of his death, even though I was barely 60. n You and I are saying two entirely different things. Jerry started drawing social security at age 62. So he had a reduced pension. I am getting 100% of THAT.

As an interesting aside, Jerry had CalPers Long Term Care Insurance, too. Since he did not use it, I got a refund of most of his premium (based on his age at death). That was a pretty good deal. Well, no, not really. I'd rather have Jerry still here and in good health.

Fern
 
Top