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Southwest still mum on Hawaii schedule

taterhed

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I decided not to reply to the last few posts.

Good info.....but obviously a very sensitive subject for some folks---on both sides of the aisle (or armrest).
 

SmithOp

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Ok, are you saying that Southwest is allowing people who feel that 1 seat on their airline is not comfortable they can book and pay for an additional seat and then get reimbursed so that they really don't need to pay for an additional seat? That sound unbelievable!

I always feel that their seats are uncomfortable and I am 6'0 and 175 pounds. I am sure that if I was significantly taller or heavier I would be even more uncomfortable.

Well I was referring to my height at 6-2, my knees are always crushed into the hard seat frame in front of me. SWA has one of the tightest spaces, I always book the extra comfort seats on airlines where available.

I’ve never heard of this extra seat program.


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PigsDad

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SWA has one of the tightest spaces, I always book the extra comfort seats on airlines where available.
Actually, that is completely incorrect. SWA's seat pitch is a uniform 32-33 inches across their fleet. American's newer planes is as little as 28". Frontier and Spirit have some as little as 28". United is 31-33". All of these airlines have the same seat width. Of course, this is comparing standard seats, however, I have seen some of United's Economy Plus seats listed with seat pitches starting at 34". That is only 1-2" more than the standard seat on Southwest!!!

So the exact opposite of your statement is true: SWA has one of the most generous spaces.

Kurt

ETA: I just did a quick search and found an article that pretty much agrees with my post (which was just from memory). Looks like Jet Blue (which I have never flown) tops out the list, followed by Southwest and pre-merger Alaska for the tops in leg room.
https://www.airfarewatchdog.com/blo...th-the-most-legroom-in-economy-and-the-least/
 
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rickandcindy23

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I have a friend who wanted to fly SW and have two seats without being "of size," and SW wouldn't sell her the extra seat. She wanted the seat in the middle available for her and hubby to keep their stuff easy to get to while in flight. SW absolutely refused to sell her that extra seat. She said that is a deal breaker for flying SW to Hawaii from NY state.
 

Luanne

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I have a friend who wanted to fly SW and have two seats without being "of size," and SW wouldn't sell her the extra seat. She wanted the seat in the middle available for her and hubby to keep their stuff easy to get to while in flight. SW absolutely refused to sell her that extra seat. She said that is a deal breaker for flying SW to Hawaii from NY state.
If they bring a musical instrument they can purchase the extra seat.
 

JohnPaul

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Ok, are you saying that Southwest is allowing people who feel that 1 seat on their airline is not comfortable they can book and pay for an additional seat and then get reimbursed so that they really don't need to pay for an additional seat? That sound unbelievable!

A person of size can purchase a second seat to insure they have sufficient room on the plane. If the plane is full then they are out the cost of two seats. If the plane is NOT full, they can apply for reimbursement of the second seat.
 

PigsDad

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I have a friend who wanted to fly SW and have two seats without being "of size," and SW wouldn't sell her the extra seat. She wanted the seat in the middle available for her and hubby to keep their stuff easy to get to while in flight. SW absolutely refused to sell her that extra seat. She said that is a deal breaker for flying SW to Hawaii from NY state.
Just curious -- has your friend tried doing that on any other airline? I would guess no because there are no airlines that will sell you an extra empty seat. Not sure why they thought Southwest would.

Kurt
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Actually, that is completely incorrect. SWA's seat pitch is a uniform 32-33 inches across their fleet. American's newer planes is as little as 28". Frontier and Spirit have some as little as 28". United is 31-33". All of these airlines have the same seat width. Of course, this is comparing standard seats, however, I have seen some of United's Economy Plus seats listed with seat pitches starting at 34". That is only 1-2" more than the standard seat on Southwest!!!

So the exact opposite of your statement is true: SWA has one of the most generous spaces.

Kurt

ETA: I just did a quick search and found an article that pretty much agrees with my post (which was just from memory). Looks like Jet Blue (which I have never flown) tops out the list, followed by Southwest and pre-merger Alaska for the tops in leg room.
https://www.airfarewatchdog.com/blo...th-the-most-legroom-in-economy-and-the-least/
It's not just pitch - seat thickness makes a difference. Almost all pre-merger Alaska planes have the Recaro seats, which provide about two more inches leg room. Although some feel otherwise, I think the Recaro seats are also more comfortable.
 

Tamaradarann

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A person of size can purchase a second seat to insure they have sufficient room on the plane. If the plane is full then they are out the cost of two seats. If the plane is NOT full, they can apply for reimbursement of the second seat.

Well that is a much better explanation of the policy that I applaud. That policy is giving the person who needs extra room the room they require, and if the plane is not full, and they couldn't sell the seat anyway, reimburses them for the second seat.

The way it was first stated in the post (listed below) it sounded like anyone who felt they needed extra room could pay for a second seat and get reimbursed with out regard to the plane occupancy.

did you know you can book an extra seat on SW and have 2 seats if one is not comfortable? You book the extra seat, pay for it, and then SW will reimburse you after you fly.
 

triangulum33

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They should offer this for everyone then.
Parents of young ones, the elderly, handicapped, etc. could all argue they could use more space.
 

SmithOp

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Actually, that is completely incorrect. SWA's seat pitch is a uniform 32-33 inches across their fleet. American's newer planes is as little as 28". Frontier and Spirit have some as little as 28". United is 31-33". All of these airlines have the same seat width. Of course, this is comparing standard seats, however, I have seen some of United's Economy Plus seats listed with seat pitches starting at 34". That is only 1-2" more than the standard seat on Southwest!!!

So the exact opposite of your statement is true: SWA has one of the most generous spaces.

Kurt

ETA: I just did a quick search and found an article that pretty much agrees with my post (which was just from memory). Looks like Jet Blue (which I have never flown) tops out the list, followed by Southwest and pre-merger Alaska for the tops in leg room.
https://www.airfarewatchdog.com/blo...th-the-most-legroom-in-economy-and-the-least/

Well I’ve only flown Hawaiian and Jetblue recently, and just started this year on SWA because I have the companion pass so from my recent experience SWA is the tightest fit. Never been on Spirit or Frontier. Flew United, Delta, and American many years ago when I had business travel.


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spears2008

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A person of size can purchase a second seat to insure they have sufficient room on the plane. If the plane is full then they are out the cost of two seats. If the plane is NOT full, they can apply for reimbursement of the second seat.
This was the prior policy, but the current policy is that the extra seat is reimbursed regardless of whether the plane is full or not.
 

spears2008

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Well that is a much better explanation of the policy that I applaud. That policy is giving the person who needs extra room the room they require, and if the plane is not full, and they couldn't sell the seat anyway, reimburses them for the second seat.

The way it was first stated in the post (listed below) it sounded like anyone who felt they needed extra room could pay for a second seat and get reimbursed with out regard to the plane occupancy.

did you know you can book an extra seat on SW and have 2 seats if one is not comfortable? You book the extra seat, pay for it, and then SW will reimburse you after you fly.

I included a copy and paste of the SW policy to avoid any confusion. I did not want to offend anyone and chose to use the word "comfortable", but the SW policy is based on whether or not a passenger can be seated within the confines of the arm rest. That information was included in my original post.

Also, poster JohnPaul was incorrect - stating a old rule SW rule regarding extra seat reimbursement. The current SW policy will refund extra seats purchased under the customer of size policy regardless of whether the flight is full or not.

From SW FAQ: "A Customer of size who purchased an additional seat may request a refund of the additional seat purchase after travel by sending us an email request at Southwest.com/feedback or by calling Southwest at 1-800-I-FLY-SWA (1-800-435-9792). Even if the flight experiences an oversale (having more confirmed Customers waiting to board than seats on the aircraft) we will refund the cost of the extra seat(s)."
 

Tamaradarann

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I included a copy and paste of the SW policy to avoid any confusion. I did not want to offend anyone and chose to use the word "comfortable", but the SW policy is based on whether or not a passenger can be seated within the confines of the arm rest. That information was included in my original post.

Also, poster JohnPaul was incorrect - stating a old rule SW rule regarding extra seat reimbursement. The current SW policy will refund extra seats purchased under the customer of size policy regardless of whether the flight is full or not.

From SW FAQ: "A Customer of size who purchased an additional seat may request a refund of the additional seat purchase after travel by sending us an email request at Southwest.com/feedback or by calling Southwest at 1-800-I-FLY-SWA (1-800-435-9792). Even if the flight experiences an oversale (having more confirmed Customers waiting to board than seats on the aircraft) we will refund the cost of the extra seat(s)."

Using the term "uncomfortable" as well as "whether of not the flight was full or not for reimbursement" certainly does confuse the issue. As I mentioned before, if the flight is not full and someone feels they need a second seat since they don't fit within the confines of the 17" seat, I certainly applaud Southwest reimbursing the person since the seats would not have been sold anyway. However, for a full or overbooked flight there are concerns from my perspective.

Although we don't believe we fit the need for a second seat criteria, my husband and I love having the middle seat empty when we fly, he sits by the window and I the isle. If there is reimbursement without regard to whether the flight is full or not people who marginally fit into the seat will get 2 seats. We know a couple where the husband has broken one of our plastic patio chairs when trying to fit into it. He would quality for a second seat. However, I know that if he knew he could definitely get reimbursed for a second seat he would say he needed it, however, if the flight was full he would have been out the money for the second seat he would squeeze.

While booking 2 seats for 1 person on line in not policeable, are gate personnel going to be placed in a position to review a person's decision to book 2 seats or approve or disapprove a request for 2 seats at the gate? Are gate personnel going to be placed in a position of weight shaming? Are they going to have a seat model like the carry-on bag model for people to sit in, or are they going to place the gate personnel in a position to use their own judgement?

What effect will people booking 2 seats on line have on the availability of seats and the pricing of seats. We know that Southwest prices their seats based on the number of seats that have been already sold. More seats sold raises the prices, less seats sold lowers the prices. The pricing of seats and the number of seats sold are how Southwest makes its money. The don't charge for bags or change fees like other airlines. Having less seats to sell will effect the Southwest bottom line which ultimately will either effect their seat pricing or their possibility of going out of business.

What happens when flights are overbooked? If 2 passengers need to be bumped will they bump 2 paying customers, or 1 person who needs 2 seats? On a full flight, if a person books only 1 seat and then comes up to the gate and asks for a second seat will they bump a passenger to accommodate the person needing a second seat but not identifying that when making their original booking?

I believe that many of these concerns will only be a problem if the "FREE" second seat catches on for those that are marginally in "need" of a second seat instead of those that are really in need of a second seat, and not just want a second seat.
 

Tamaradarann

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I included a copy and paste of the SW policy to avoid any confusion. I did not want to offend anyone and chose to use the word "comfortable", but the SW policy is based on whether or not a passenger can be seated within the confines of the arm rest. That information was included in my original post.

Also, poster JohnPaul was incorrect - stating a old rule SW rule regarding extra seat reimbursement. The current SW policy will refund extra seats purchased under the customer of size policy regardless of whether the flight is full or not.

From SW FAQ: "A Customer of size who purchased an additional seat may request a refund of the additional seat purchase after travel by sending us an email request at Southwest.com/feedback or by calling Southwest at 1-800-I-FLY-SWA (1-800-435-9792). Even if the flight experiences an oversale (having more confirmed Customers waiting to board than seats on the aircraft) we will refund the cost of the extra seat(s)."

We just flew from Islip to Fort Lauderdale on Southwest yesterday. I spoke to one of the gate agents about the reimbursement policy for those that want a second seat. She indicated that indeed the policy changed and passengers now can get reimbursed for second seats without regard to availability. However, she said that she scrutinizes the "need" for a second seat of passengers that requests second seats whether it is on line or if they approach her before the flight. If they don't appear to need one she will not let them have the second seat.

Furthermore, she indicated that when she sees a passenger who she feels needs a second seat, if they don't already have one, she will ask them if they want one. The approach seemed to be one in which they are concerned about the comfort of all passengers as well as possible conflict between passengers that encroach upon or are encroached on in adjacent seats that flight attendants will ultimately will need to deal with. She said that it is very uncomfortable approaching someone about this issue, but it is her job to do so. If all Southwest personnel are as dedicated as this one in scrutinizing those that request a second seat, my concerns are considerable reduced since only those that really need the second seat will be getting one.
 

dioxide45

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Ok, are you saying that Southwest is allowing people who feel that 1 seat on their airline is not comfortable they can book and pay for an additional seat and then get reimbursed so that they really don't need to pay for an additional seat? That sound unbelievable!

I always feel that their seats are uncomfortable and I am 6'0 and 175 pounds. I am sure that if I was significantly taller or heavier I would be even more uncomfortable.
That isn't the purpose of the COS policy. It is meant for those that can not sit in a seat and not take up space in the adjacent seat. Also if the arm rest will not lower.
 

Tamaradarann

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That isn't the purpose of the COS policy. It is meant for those that can not sit in a seat and not take up space in the adjacent seat. Also if the arm rest will not lower.

Yes, we are beyond the misunderstanding part of the discussion on this tread. Please read my November 2nd experience with Southwest Airlines airlines. By the way what does COS stand for?
 

dioxide45

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Yes, we are beyond the misunderstanding part of the discussion on this tread. Please read my November 2nd experience with Southwest Airlines airlines. By the way what does COS stand for?
COS=Customer of Size
 

rickandcindy23

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Just curious -- has your friend tried doing that on any other airline? I would guess no because there are no airlines that will sell you an extra empty seat. Not sure why they thought Southwest would.

Kurt
Well, they usually drive with their two kids to Orlando from NY state. She is a TUG member, and so maybe I will have her come to this discussion.

When she mentioned that she tried to get an extra seat on SW to Orlando, I realized I would not be able to do the same to Hawaii, and so we will continue to use our Chase Sapphire Reserve points for those wonderful first class seats.

I actually hoped SW would offer first class on their planes to Hawaii. An isle and window seat for the two of us would be ideal because we don't care about the first class service, just the roominess of the seat. Rick gets up often, and I stay put on airplanes.

Rick doesn't like the middle seat. We have had the companion pass for two years, and next month is the end of that wonderful benefit. I don't know how much we will fly SW in the future.
 

Tamaradarann

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COS=Customer of Size

Is that a standard abbreviation or something that is made up on the fly. Never heard of it before, but I like to spell things out so everyone gets and stays on the same page in a discussion.
 

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I asked a flight attendant on a recent SW flight about Hawaii. She didn’t think December but said hopefully 1st quarter. From her answer I’m a little worried about waiting it out for my March trip.


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According to this article from The Points Guy, it looks like we're still weeks--if not months--away from Southwest entering the Hawaii market.
 

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Hmm I think I've heard this somewhere before......

I wish them luck, but better to get it right the first time.
 

GT75

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From her answer I’m a little worried about waiting it out for my March trip.

I gave up on waiting and booked my flights for HI in February/March next year. Now, I am very glad that I did.
 
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