Is 2019 the 'Year of the Timeshare'? [Marriott/Vistana/Hyatt in the DC speculation]

[bazzap]

It's not the lock-off feature itself I think commands more points, its the fact a 2 bedroom is comprised of 2 units that each equate to a 1 bedroom....think of it this way, certainly the small 1 bedroom side of an SVN lock-off should be worth more than a studio. Therefore the total for the full sized one bedroom and the small sized one bedroom (SVN mainland resorts) should command a premium over the total of a full sized one-bedroom plus a studio (MVC resorts).

One (not quite the same) example in DC is Marriott Grand Residence Club, Lake Tahoe - the larger 2 bedrooms (that sleep 6-8) command about a 10% point premium over the smaller 2 bedrooms (that sleep 4-6).



I'm not sure I follow - why would the mandatory resale feature affect owners choice to enroll in the DC (if the option was provided)? If the enrollment fee is low, not sure why they would care if it transfers on ownership (to be clear, I have always assumed SVN as is will continue as it is alongside the DC, with the DC just as an additional option...I think too much work to wind SVN up). While I think SVN will continue to be relevant, if Maui, St John and Harborside owners are offered attractive DC point values for electing their week in any give year, it could start to crunch SVN inventory when those owners choose to use DC Points.

I understand that the points required to book the 1 Bed and the Studio separately in a lock off capable unit are more than for booking the Full unit.
I don’t believe though that the points allocated when enrolling that lock off capable unit were any higher than for the equivalent non lock off capable unit.

 

[Dean]

THere certainly are not a lot of protections. Vistana can change VSN or eliminate it at will. I think the challenge is the mandatory properties. If they simply say DC is the new VSN, you now have five resorts where resale weeks have an in to the DC program. We know Marriott has a huge hatred of resales. They lock out all post 6/20/2010 resale weeks from enrolling unless they pay uber cash to bring it in to the system with a new points purchase. They also charge huge initiation fees to resale DC points. So I can't see them just making DC the new VSN.

THey could eliminate VSN and start up DC and require Vistana owners to buy in or enroll to have access to the new system. This of course equals a third of your owner base that is POed. Or they could add an additional layer like many are speculating here. Only time will tell which path they follow.

What are the contractual options to change the mandatory status and situation. Is the ability to exchange to similar HI locked in contractually and if so, can it be changed without a vote of the membership? Do those resorts have ROFR? Which could be a way to limit the access from that direction. Of course they could spin those off and just not worry about it. Plus I'm sure there's an out if other resorts are no longer in the same system. Could they just rebrand those resorts as MVC?

They will have to grandfather the mandatory resale feature if they want to attract owners of WKORV, WKORVN, Harborside, St John etc to enroll. If not, this will be a deal breaker for many owners like me, making SVN quite relevant for a very long time (i.e. keeping significant Maui inventory in SVN SO pool vs. the points trust).

There is more than one way to coerce members to join. The main ones include giving them more or taking away current options. Even for contractual options they could offer an ultimatum of sign to change the contract or exit the system entirely. As we've seen a number of posts assuming that they have to do this with kid gloves and try to keep everyone happy, I'm reminded of the discussions leading up to and immediately following when Marriott spun off a number of resorts years ago. I can think of several ultimatums from Marriott and in some cases where the owners complied and were still let go. I can think of issues between Aruba Ocean Club with Marriott and Beachplace Towers v Marriott where expulsion was discussed. I'm sure Marriott knows that not everyone will be happy and some will be vocal and I'm certain they're OK with that. It's not that they want to upset people I'm sure but if it stands in the way of having a variable and profitable future venture, I'm sure they will not hesitate to make some difficult decisions once they've weighed all their options. This "I'll complain", "I'll sue" or the infamous "Class Action Lawsuit" are not going to affect them if they feel they are on solid legal ground.

 

[Dean]

I understand that the points required to book the 1 Bed and the Studio separately in a lock off capable unit are more than for booking the Full unit.
I don’t believe though that the points allocated when enrolling that lock off capable unit were any higher than for the equivalent non lock off capable unit.

I'm pretty sure that the points for the lock off portions are not guaranteed and not protected by the reallocation rules. Now if there are smaller dedicated units, that may give some vicarious protection.

 

[SueDonJ]

I understand that the points required to book the 1 Bed and the Studio separately in a lock off capable unit are more than for booking the Full unit.

Agree, within the DC Points Charts the total required to book a complete lock-off unit is most always less than the total to book the components separately.

While we're on the subject we may as well note here the tidbit, that enrolled Weeks with lockoff access must be elected for DC Points as a single unit. It is not possible for an Owner to reserve a component within the Weeks system and then exchange the remaining component(s) for DC Points.

I don’t believe though that the points allocated when enrolling that lock off capable unit were any higher than for the equivalent non lock off capable unit.

Where same-size lockoff and dedicated (non-lockoff) units are co-located within a single Marriott resort, the capability to book separate components of a lock-off unit wasn't a factor in the original Weeks purchase price because access to a lockoff unit is not guaranteed. Regardless of the footprint of the unit number that's specified in any particular deed, the docs specify that placement in any particular unit isn't guaranteed and that access to a desired lockoff-capable or dedicated unit is first-come-first-served by request at the time of reservation (which has always sounded to me like potential for a giant recurring nightmare but if you go by TUG over the years it seems to work with very few complaints, probably because locking-off incurs a transaction fee.) It stands to reason that minus the guaranteed access to a specified lockoff unit, there's no way Marriott could have differentiated DC Point allotments among all Weeks owners who have the ability to book one by request.

**This of course applies to the resorts with floating-unit ownerships - owners at any of the very few fixed-unit resorts can speak to whether there's a mix of same-size dedicated and lockoff-capable units at those resorts, and if so, whether DC allotments are differentiated. I've never seen anything to suggest it but anything's possible.

 

[kds4]

I think this may be why we end up seeing Marriott creating an overlay only for their pure trust point owners; Sheraton Flex, Westin Flex, Westin Aventuras and Marriott Trust Points (to be renamed Marriott Flex). These owners really have non pre-conceived value of the worth of a week. Marriott then sets up some kind of conversion ratio of DC points and HomeOptions. You can continue to book inside your own trust starting at 13/12 months depending on ownership level and trust and if you want to book across the systems you can do so at some other month mark (or perhaps still at 13/12 months). Perhaps you don't even have to elect your points, you just do a straight booking and you keep whatever leftover points in their original form. So say it is 20:1 and you own 6,000 DC points, you can perhaps use 2,200 to get to get 44,000 Options to book a 1BR in low season in Cancun for a week and have 3,800 DC points left for a Marriott booking or perhaps a later conversion to Options. Or you are a Vistana owner and want to book a peak 1BR in Boston, you use 63,000 Options and whatever you have left can be used for a Vistana reservation or future conversion to DC points. There may be bargains or bad conversions and 20:1 may not be the best ratio, but you get the idea.

The more I think about this and the problems they will have with what they sold certain Vistana weeks for and what they are really worth as compared to similar Marriott resorts in the same area, the more I think they will go with a conversion only for pure trust point owners. If us weeks owners want in, we have to buy in or perhaps trade in our weeks using "equity value" and buy in to one of the trusts. Marriott doesn't really owe any of us anything. Again though, it is all speculation and guessing or perhaps I just created their new program for them

Agreed. I think they will require you to be a points owner in some form (pure points or as an enrolled weeks owner) to get access to this. As far as valuation goes, an imperfect metric of the accuracy of any proposed integrated points exchange rate might be a comparison back to the points valuations of the underlying weeks in the system someone would be 'cross-exchanging' into?

 

[Fasttr]

I have a couple questions for those folks who did the deep-dive into the Destination Club CCRs when it was announced almost 10 years ago...

1) I understand that the docs say something about the total number of points required to book can't change and that an increase in points required to book in one part of the point chart has to be offset by a decrease elsewhere. Can those adjustments be made between resorts or just within a given resort?
2) Since the points assigned to enrolled weeks are somewhat tied to the points required to book those weeks (the booking cost less the "Skim"), what freedom does Marriott Vacation Club have to change the points assigned to enrolled weeks? In other worlds, can they decide to change the election value of a Maui Ocean Club 2BR OV from 5825 points to 5200 or 6500? It would seem a change like that would trigger the need to adjust booking costs as well, which would then run into the restriction that increases in one part of the chart need to be offset elsewhere.

I ask this because the discussion a page or two earlier in this thread about the low point values assigned to Caribbean resorts, made me wonder to what extent MVC could use any re-do of the DC system (to incorporate participation by the Vistana/Hyatt networks) to also adjust or rectify any point value imbalances that may have been uncovered in the first decade of the DC?

Here are some more interesting tidbits associated with your first question.....

These are bullet points found on the last page of the full MVC Collection Points Chart they used to publish....example here.... https://www.marriottvacationsworldw...Tools/resorts/charts/pdfDisplay/2018_full.pdf

1. Unless otherwise permitted by applicable law, with respect to any accommodation, no change exceeding ten percent (10%) per annum in the manner in which point values may be used may be made without the assent of at least twenty-five percent (25%) of the voting power of the Association other than the developer.
2. No trust owner will be prevented from using the trust plan as a result of changes in the manner in which point values may be used.
3. In the event point values are changed, no trust owner will be prevented from using the accommodations in the same manner as was provided for under the original purchase contract.
4. Subject to the limitations in items 1 through 3 above, the Points requirements set forth on this Points Schedule are subject to change by the Program Manager at any time, in accordance with Article III of the Reservation Procedures for Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program. For the most current Points Schedule, please refer to My-VacationClub.com.
5. This is the Points Schedule for MVC Trust.


And here is what the Exchange Docs say in Article III referenced above....

All Program Members. The Exchange Points necessary to reserve a Use Period are identified on the Exchange Point Schedule. Exchange Company will review the Exchange Point Schedule at least annually and amend the Exchange Point Schedule as necessary to maintain an equitable distribution of the usage requirements based on various factors such as relative daily and seasonal demand, Accommodation capacity, size, view, and furnishings, and other valuation parameters established by Exchange Company or as might be required by law. Any such modification to the Exchange Point Schedule shall not require approval by the Program Members or amendment of these Exchange Procedures.


From my read, the ability to change the Point Schedule seems more restrictive for Trust Point Owners than it is for Exchange Point Owners, perhaps allowing the ability for there to be 2 Points Charts at some point in time???

 

[CPNY]

What are the contractual options to change the mandatory status and situation. Is the ability to exchange to similar HI locked in contractually and if so, can it be changed without a vote of the membership? Do those resorts have ROFR? Which could be a way to limit the access from that direction. Of course they could spin those off and just not worry about it. Plus I'm sure there's an out if other resorts are no longer in the same system. Could they just rebrand those resorts as MVC?

Not all mandatory resorts have ROFR. Vistana Villages is one of them and don’t quote me but I believe WKV and St. John doesn’t as well. The question is, is the mandatory part of the deed for membership in “VSN only”, and if the program is done away with, do they get membership granted in another program? They would have to make many petty changes to start eliminating these resorts to ensure mandatory resorts are left out.

They could spin what off? The mandatory properties? I guess they could, but there are some desirable properties that are mandatory. Spin them off how exactly? Where would they go, their own program or the DC program? If So are you guaranteeing DC membership for owners of the deed? It transfers on resale, how would they get rid of that? What would be the point? But something tells me the answer to all of this is going to be much more simpler than everyone is speculating.

 

[Beverley]

Excellent. I assume for only those who purchase through the developer at top pricing? I’ll just rent peoples units in Marriott for less than maint fees if I really wanna go to a crap resort like st Kitts. But in all seriousness, that’s amazing I really hope you listened and bought more to get a higher tier! MVC couldn’t give me 2500 points to be in the program. No thanks.

Renting points can be an excellent idea as it helps both those like you that do not want to buy and owners that have an excess in a particular year. However, please keep in mind that there are many Marriott resorts that are excellent and very well liked by their owners an others who do not own. Just as I do not hold a high regard for Vistana as a result of personal experiences, I would not insult those who like it by insulting the Marriott resorts. I’ve been to St Kitts and while it is certainly not St Johns it was really quite nice and far from a &$#@ resort. Many on this board have their preferences on both sides of the house.

 

[CPNY]

Renting points can be an excellent idea as it helps both those like you that do not want to buy and owners that have an excess in a particular year. However, please keep in mind that there are many Marriott resorts that are excellent and very well liked by their owners an others who do not own. Just as I do not hold a high regard for Vistana as a result of personal experiences, I would not insult those who like it by insulting the Marriott resorts. I’ve been to St Kitts and while it is certainly not St Johns it was really quite nice and far from a &$#@ resort. Many on this board have their preferences on both sides of the house.

I’m only kidding I’ve been to plenty of Marriott properties I love, i really enjoyed canyon villas and enjoyed access to JW. St Kitts resort itself was really nice. I just am particular with my beach, Which to be fair isn’t the fault of Marriott and i shouldn’t take it out on the club lol. It was The seaweed that killed me. I actually would buy into Aruba Ocean Club but i understand the high maint fee and restrictions make it difficult to own resale, as it cannot be enrolled into DC correct?

 

[SueDonJ]

I’m only kidding I’ve been to plenty of Marriott properties I love, i really enjoyed canyon villas and enjoyed access to JW. St Kitts resort itself was really nice. I just am particular with my beach, Which to be fair isn’t the fault of Marriott and i shouldn’t take it out on the club lol. It was The seaweed that killed me. I actually would buy into Aruba Ocean Club but i understand the high maint fee and restrictions make it difficult to own resale, as it cannot be enrolled into DC correct?

Aruba Weeks can be enrolled in the DC subject to the eligibility rules. Buy in via a direct-purchase hybrid Weeks/Points package that includes a Week brokered by Marriott Resales and the Week will be enrolled. Buy in via a Weeks purchase in the external resale market and it can't.

 

[Fasttr]

I actually would buy into Aruba Ocean Club but i understand the high maint fee and restrictions make it difficult to own resale, as it cannot be enrolled into DC correct?

Aruba weeks purchased direct via MVC can be enrolled in the DC. An Aruba week purchased via resale market currently cannot be enrolled in the DC without a Trust points purchase (either via MVC via a hybrid bundle, or via one of the summer amnesty promotions.)

 

[CPNY]

Aruba Weeks can be enrolled in the DC subject to the eligibility rules. Buy in via a direct-purchase hybrid Weeks/Points package that includes a Week brokered by Marriott Resales and the Week will be enrolled. Buy in via a Weeks purchase in the external resale market and it can't.

Interesting, I wonder if I did something like a hybrid through their resale might be a good option if the price was right. Then I’d have the best of all worlds!

 

[CPNY]

Aruba weeks purchased direct via MVC can be enrolled in the DC. An Aruba week purchased via resale market currently cannot be enrolled in the DC without a Trust points purchase (either via MVC via a hybrid bundle, or via one of the summer amnesty promotions.)

I heard the amnesty promo is back on, is the minimum 10K. With all the speculation I’m wondering if it’s best to wait and see what they offer or get in before they announce. The issue remains, closing in time to beat any cut off. They could announce now but begin in 2020. Would that affect any resale purchases? All of this can make ya crazy, when all I want to do is sit on a beach

 

[SueDonJ]

Interesting, I wonder if I did something like a hybrid through their resale might be a good option if the price was right. Then I’d have the best of all worlds!

Be prepared for sticker shock - Marriott Resales has always priced Weeks equivalent or nearly to direct-purchase original Weeks, and the Trust Points cost of hybrid packages is still high. As has been said, hybrid packages may be the most economical way of buying direct because the Week somewhat alleviates the higher costs of straight Trust Points and associated MF's, but it's still not an inexpensive proposition.

 

[CPNY]

Be prepared for sticker shock - Marriott Resales has always priced Weeks equivalent or nearly to direct-purchase original Weeks, and the Trust Points cost of hybrid packages is still high. As has been said, hybrid packages may be the most economical way of buying direct because the Week somewhat alleviates the higher costs of straight Trust Points and associated MF's, but it's still not an inexpensive proposition.

I prefer weeks for a resort I want to go to. Owning harborside was great for me but the rising MF’s and added VAT from the Bahamas made it difficult to own there. I was never able to get availability until after 8 months anyway so why bother? I have a limited amount of resorts that appeal to me these days. Caribbean being my want, so Aruba, St Thomas, St John and Harborside are the resorts I’m interested in. Certain ski resorts would be nice which is why i go back and forth on being in DC. Hybrid sounds very appealing. It’s the sticker shock that worries me! 2 buck resales are attractive even as a trader in II. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Fasttr]

I heard the amnesty promo is back on, is the minimum 10K. With all the speculation I’m wondering if it’s best to wait and see what they offer or get in before they announce. The issue remains, closing in time to beat any cut off. They could announce now but begin in 2020. Would that affect any resale purchases? All of this can make ya crazy, when all I want to do is sit on a beach

More like $33K+ on top of the whatever you pay for the resale Ocean Club. Need to purchase 3000 Trust points to enroll one previously unenrollable week. If it were me, I would wait and see how it all shakes out before making any moves.

Then again, they could draw a new line in the sand and allow previously unenrollable weeks into the plan with an enrollment fee... and in that case, having your resale Aruba Ocean Club waiting for that would be sweet. Hard to plan when we don't know what they will roll out.

 

[CPNY]

More like $33K+ on top of the whatever you pay for the resale Ocean Club. Need to purchase 3000 Trust points to enroll one previously unenrollable week. If it were me, I would wait and see how it all shakes out before making any moves.

Yeah I agree even though I just picked up more mandatory deeds in VSN. If it works out to be a bad move, what can ya do! I guess I’ll put my annual pass to universal Orlando to good use 3 weeks a year haha.

 

[ocdb8r]

I understand that the points required to book the 1 Bed and the Studio separately in a lock off capable unit are more than for booking the Full unit.
I don’t believe though that the points allocated when enrolling that lock off capable unit were any higher than for the equivalent non lock off capable unit.

Sorry that I focused everyone on the "lock-off" capability; this wasn't my intention.

Let me put it another way - a full 2 bedroom unit at (most) mainland SVn properties sleeps 8 people comfortably, with 2 bedrooms, 2 living rooms (both will full pullout sofa's) a full kitchen and a good sized kitchenette. As in the Grand Tahoe example, MVC gave large 2 bedroom units there a point premium - I think that means it would be reasonable for an Westin Mission Hills 2-bedroom owner to expect a premium in DC points offered over and above a MVC Desert Springs owner. There is simply more space and more amenities in the unit.

The larger point is that the increased size/amenities of these units gives MVC some flexibility in how they assign points such that they don't have to as closely match similar resorts in similar geographies (on mainland US) with existing DC resorts. That in turn could minimize the delta (a bit) in what a Westin Kierland villas owner gets offered compared to a Westin Kaanapali owner compared to the current delta in DC points for resorts in these same geographic areas.

 

[bazzap]

I’m only kidding I’ve been to plenty of Marriott properties I love, i really enjoyed canyon villas and enjoyed access to JW. St Kitts resort itself was really nice. I just am particular with my beach, Which to be fair isn’t the fault of Marriott and i shouldn’t take it out on the club lol. It was The seaweed that killed me. I actually would buy into Aruba Ocean Club but i understand the high maint fee and restrictions make it difficult to own resale, as it cannot be enrolled into DC correct?

The seaweed in St Kitts seems to primarily be a Summer issue.
We have spent some 10+ weeks there in total over the years and never seen the problem.
I can understand though that it could be very unpleasant if there during your stay.
The Sargassum seaweed issue is by no means limited to St Kitts though, it has spread across the whole Atlantic from Africa to the Caribbean, Mexico, Florida...
http://weatherplus.blog.mypalmbeach...orida-during-worst-seaweed-assault-on-record/

 

[CPNY]

The seaweed in St Kitts seems to primarily be a Summer issue.
We have spent some 10+ weeks there in total over the years and never seen the problem.
I can understand though that it could be very unpleasant if there during your stay.
The Sargassum seaweed issue is by no means limited to St Kitts though, it has spread across the whole Atlantic from Africa to the Caribbean, Mexico, Florida...
http://weatherplus.blog.mypalmbeach...orida-during-worst-seaweed-assault-on-record/

True very true. I was there in the summer from what I remember. Hey, I went zip lining for the first time and it was great! But Aruba Ocean and Surf club was amazing. If the harborside didn’t have the Atlantis attached, I would never go there. Maaybeeee I was a little harsh on the st Kitts property.

 

[SMB1]

Sorry that I focused everyone on the "lock-off" capability; this wasn't my intention.

Let me put it another way - a full 2 bedroom unit at (most) mainland SVn properties sleeps 8 people comfortably, with 2 bedrooms, 2 living rooms (both will full pullout sofa's) a full kitchen and a good sized kitchenette. As in the Grand Tahoe example, MVC gave large 2 bedroom units there a point premium - I think that means it would be reasonable for an Westin Mission Hills 2-bedroom owner to expect a premium in DC points offered over and above a MVC Desert Springs owner. There is simply more space and more amenities in the unit.

The larger point is that the increased size/amenities of these units gives MVC some flexibility in how they assign points such that they don't have to as closely match similar resorts in similar geographies (on mainland US) with existing DC resorts. That in turn could minimize the delta (a bit) in what a Westin Kierland villas owner gets offered compared to a Westin Kaanapali owner compared to the current delta in DC points for resorts in these same geographic areas.

You're probably right. I'm not sure how they would differentiate valuations between different resorts, but Lakeshore Reserve has standard 2BR LOs and deluxe 2BR LOs. The deluxe lock off into a standard 1BR and a smaller 1BR with everything but an oven. The deluxe units are assigned a higher point value than the standard.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I'm not sure I follow - why would the mandatory resale feature affect owners choice to enroll in the DC (if the option was provided)? If the enrollment fee is low, not sure why they would care if it transfers on ownership (to be clear, I have always assumed SVN as is will continue as it is alongside the DC, with the DC just as an additional option...I think too much work to wind SVN up). While I think SVN will continue to be relevant, if Maui, St John and Harborside owners are offered attractive DC point values for electing their week in any give year, it could start to crunch SVN inventory when those owners choose to use DC Points.

It sounds like MVC would be unlikely to touch existing provisions in SVN ownership for enrolling. This is good if the enrollment fee is nominal.

Mandatory designation affects property values. Mandatory Vistana deeds (WKORV, WKORVN > 2/3 of Maui, SVV (Key West, Bella), Harborside, WKV, and parts of St. John) provide automatic enrollment in the Staroption points program when the property is purchased by resale buyers. This value to automatically trade SOs is coveted by resale buyers vs. voluntary resorts that can only trade in II. VSN owners love and understand the SO program AND it requires zero incremental spend. Unless MVC uses significant incentives and waives enrollment fees, the adoption of MVC by mandatory owners will be slow so significant declines in VSN inventory will take a very long time. Maybe that's okay because they already have MOC and the properties in Mexico etc. are not mandatory and will have more incentive to enroll. Even if they enroll only a handful of mandatory owners, they can still list it as a destination on their marketing materials to attract retail buyers and enrollees.

Sheraton/Westin Flex required owners to give up their deeds (and their mandatory status) in order to participate. As a result, Flex has experienced dismal adoption and resale values for Flex plummeted; that's why eliminating mandatory would be a deal breaker.

What are the contractual options to change the mandatory status and situation. Is the ability to exchange to similar HI locked in contractually and if so, can it be changed without a vote of the membership? Do those resorts have ROFR? Which could be a way to limit the access from that direction. Of course they could spin those off and just not worry about it. Plus I'm sure there's an out if other resorts are no longer in the same system. Could they just rebrand those resorts as MVC?

There is more than one way to coerce members to join. The main ones include giving them more or taking away current options. Even for contractual options they could offer an ultimatum of sign to change the contract or exit the system entirely. As we've seen a number of posts assuming that they have to do this with kid gloves and try to keep everyone happy, I'm reminded of the discussions leading up to and immediately following when Marriott spun off a number of resorts years ago. I can think of several ultimatums from Marriott and in some cases where the owners complied and were still let go. I can think of issues between Aruba Ocean Club with Marriott and Beachplace Towers v Marriott where expulsion was discussed. I'm sure Marriott knows that not everyone will be happy and some will be vocal and I'm certain they're OK with that. It's not that they want to upset people I'm sure but if it stands in the way of having a variable and profitable future venture, I'm sure they will not hesitate to make some difficult decisions once they've weighed all their options. This "I'll complain", "I'll sue" or the infamous "Class Action Lawsuit" are not going to affect them if they feel they are on solid legal ground.

Although MVC is profit-driven, it doesn't seem that coercion and alienating owners of desirable properties to add to their portfolio would be prudent or in their MO. Especially for something as mundane as points program participation.

Can you provide more specifics on what issues led to the ultimatums with Aruba Ocean Club et al? Did it have to do with points enrollment? Or were there more severe issues involved?

 

[rickandcindy23]

The price for converting all of our weeks to DC will be outrageous. We just own resale weeks. I don't even want to hear the price they want for that. I remember that $1.5 million the salesman talked about a few years ago, just to convert my weeks to SO's. That was just a nasty offer.

My concern is getting resorts up to the same quality as Marriott. I think Marriott will consider SBP as a sub-standard resort, especially after I saw the remodel of the units at Cypress Harbour. No way does SBP compete with the Marriott remodels. I think the exterior hallways need some work at SBP, too. They aren't clean and shiny like Cypress Harbour. The unit itself was nice, pretty comfortable.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sorry that I focused everyone on the "lock-off" capability; this wasn't my intention.

Let me put it another way - a full 2 bedroom unit at (most) mainland SVn properties sleeps 8 people comfortably, with 2 bedrooms, 2 living rooms (both will full pullout sofa's) a full kitchen and a good sized kitchenette. As in the Grand Tahoe example, MVC gave large 2 bedroom units there a point premium - I think that means it would be reasonable for an Westin Mission Hills 2-bedroom owner to expect a premium in DC points offered over and above a MVC Desert Springs owner. There is simply more space and more amenities in the unit.

The larger point is that the increased size/amenities of these units gives MVC some flexibility in how they assign points such that they don't have to as closely match similar resorts in similar geographies (on mainland US) with existing DC resorts. That in turn could minimize the delta (a bit) in what a Westin Kierland villas owner gets offered compared to a Westin Kaanapali owner compared to the current delta in DC points for resorts in these same geographic areas.

Amenities are a factor, sure, both contained within the individual units and expanded to the common areas within a property footprint. Increased unit size is a factor insofar as the number of bedrooms, but a larger unit size by square footage might not be the factor you think it could be among units that have the same bedroom/head count. Consider the non-lockoff 2BR units across the eight Marriott resorts on Hilton Head Island - they all decreased in unit sqft and increased in common area amenities as each came online, yet Weeks at the newer/smaller-unit resorts have been allocated more DC Points than the older/larger. Marriott generally uses its own suppliers for furnishings/appliances/electronics and similarly outfits each unit during routine scheduled refurbs, the common/exterior areas less so but they try subject to constraints of the overall footprints. I'd guess the more important factor when they established DC Points allotments is that the newer resorts are in higher demand. (Just to note that two of these eight resorts also offer non-lockoff 3BR units which are allocated more DC Points than same-property 2BR's, as reasonably expected.)

I don't know how all that might relate to the specific Vistana properties you're citing?

 

[SueDonJ]

The price for converting all of our weeks to DC will be outrageous. We just own resale weeks. I don't even want to hear the price they want for that. I remember that $1.5 million the salesman talked about a few years ago, just to convert my weeks to SO's. That was just a nasty offer. ...

You may be pleasantly surprised. The current Enrollment Fee is $2,395 no matter how many eligible Weeks you're enrolling. Even at the DC inception when the enrollment fees for multiple Weeks were based on how the units were purchased, i.e. $695 (direct-purchase) and $1,995 (external resale,) they were flat fees for a single account, not per Week.