[ 2017 ] New Westin Flex

[Westnick]

I was able to get some pricing information that I thought other readers might find useful...

148,100 SOs go for $51,835
176,700 SOs go for $61,845

Annual fees are $2,697 for the 148,100 SOs
For 176,700 SOs they were (i did not write down the exact number 3200-3200 per year).

The resorts are the two Westin's in CA (Desert Willow and Mission Hills)
The resort Colorado is Westin Riverfront
The resorts in Hawaii, WKORV, WKORV-N and Princeville. There is no oceanfront category bookable by home options (to us this is a deal killer).

Essentially, it's the same exact purchase price as the Aventuras (Mexico Flex), but the annual fees are much higher with the Westin Flex.

This could be attractive for someone who does not care about booking ocean front view categories at the two Maui properties.

Darius

 

[Westnick]

I was able to get some pricing information that I thought other readers might find useful...

148,100 SOs go for $51,835
176,700 SOs go for $61,845

Annual fees are $2,697 for the 148,100 SOs
For 176,700 SOs they were (i did not write down the exact number 3200-3200 per year).

The resorts are the two Westin's in CA (Desert Willow and Mission Hills)
The resort Colorado is Westin Riverfront
The resorts in Hawaii, WKORV, WKORV-N and Princeville. There is no oceanfront category bookable by home options (to us this is a deal killer).

Essentially, it's the same exact purchase price as the Aventuras (Mexico Flex), but the annual fees are much higher with the Westin Flex.

This could be attractive for someone who does not care about booking ocean front view categories at the two Maui properties.

Darius

Last 2 years that I was at riverfront they never tryed to sell me a unit there. They said they were completely sold out except for a few shoulder seasons. They were pushing the Sheraton flex program. The pool for the flex at riverfront has to be very small. I don’t see how anyone that buys the flex program would ever be able to book there. Combine that with no oceanfront in Hawaii, does not seem to be a good deal.

 

[dioxide45]

Here are the underlying trust documents for the new Westin Flex, legally referred to as Flex Collection LLC. It looks like they just legally set this up on December 18th 2017.

Trust Document
20170692043
20170692054

Conveyances of Inventory
Desert Willow Resort Condominium: 20170689862
River Mountain Villas Condominium: 20170689863
Ocean Resort Villas North: 20170689864
Ocean Resort Villas: 20170689865
Princeville Ocean Resort Villas: 20170689866

 

[Westnick]

Am I reading this correctly? Ski season at riverfront is not included in the flex program.

 

[dioxide45]

Am I reading this correctly? Ski season at riverfront is not included in the flex program.

It would look that way. Nothing conveyed with weeks prior to week 16.

 

[pathways25]

It looks like all of the intervals conveyed for WKORV and WKORVN are Island View.

I guess that solves the problem of how to allocate reservations between OV and IV when they both cost the same number of options.

 

[lizap]

And many of the WDW units are in the summer/fall. Hmm..

 

[dioxide45]

With ROFR at the Hawaii properties, I wonder if they will ramp up on exercising on these resales? One thing that flex does let them do is convert mandatory weeks to voluntary. Over time this may kill off mandatory resales if Vistana somehow finds a way to acquire inventory from the mandatory properties where they don't have ROFR (SVV, WKV).

 

[dioxide45]

Am I reading this correctly? Ski season at riverfront is not included in the flex program.

And many of the WDW units are in the summer. Hmm..

I suspect this is possibly made up of mostly unsold inventory? So perhaps that explains why the undesirable season conveyed so far.

 

[VacationForever]

I suspect this is possibly made up of mostly unsold inventory? So perhaps that explains why the undesirable season conveyed so far.

WOW is all I can say. So they sell people their products and when owners try to use them, no winter/peak season weeks in the Desert, no Oceanview/Ocean Front at Kanaapali, no ski weeks at Riverfront. We know that they market 176K Flex Options on the premise of using that to book 2BR Ocean Front in Maui.

 

[tschwa2]

So far they really are putting lipstick on a pig. I would imagine they hope to add to it with some better weeks in the future.

 

[darius]

When speaking with Vistana sales, they tell you you'll only get Island View Maui or maybe Ocean View. To be fair, they specifically disclosed that Ocean Front is not available in the Flex program. They did allude to the ability to get ski weeks at Riverfront though.

Does anyone have a way to get the same data for the Adventuras (Mexican flex) program?

 

[bizaro86]

When speaking with Vistana sales, they tell you you'll only get Island View Maui or maybe Ocean View. To be fair, they specifically disclosed that Ocean Front is not available in the Flex program. They did allude to the ability to get ski weeks at Riverfront though.

Does anyone have a way to get the same data for the Adventuras (Mexican flex) program?

The one thing about the Mexican resorts is that Cabo (and the future Westin Cancun) are new and never had week sales. So the entire resort probably gets deeded to the trust, which should make peak seasons easier to get.

No wonder westin flex MF are so high if it's all off season weeks.

 

[dioxide45]

No wonder westin flex MF are so high if it's all off season weeks.

Those low season all have a pretty high MF to SO ratio. The same is true for most of the Sheraton properties in Sheraton Flex. So this does drive up the MF on flex. They really need to try to get some peak season weeks in there. They may have a hard time without ROFR at many of their properties.

 

[bizaro86]

I think they have more phases to build at Westin Desert willow, which would add some peak weeks (although also add off season weeks).

The peak weeks at the California properties aren't that expensive, open market buys would definitely be possible I would think.

 

[DavidnRobin]

For WKORV - the Flex villas are essentially all the B4 IV VOIs.
How do they put all of these B4 IV VOIs in the Flex when they do not own all of these VOIs?
(certainly lots of IV deeded owners still around)

 

[bizaro86]

For WKORV - the Flex villas are essentially all the B4 IV VOIs.
How do they put all of these B4 IV VOIs in the Flex when they do not own all of these VOIs?
(certainly lots of IV deeded owners still around)

I suspect B4 IV owners (especially deluxe) are good targets for an upgrade pitch to trade in for Nanea.

 

[DavidnRobin]

No doubt.
Sure glad we own OF, and own where we go (or can go easily like WKV). I think the overall impact for VSN usage (for us) is negative for Maui access. We’ll see...

Haven’t looked at WPORV locations closely - didn’t see any B6 or B7 - but did see B3 (could be wrong)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ragdoll]

No doubt.
Sure glad we own OF, and own where we go (or can go easily like WKV). I think the overall impact for VSN usage (for us) is negative for Maui access. We’ll see...

Haven’t looked at WPORV locations closely - didn’t see any B6 or B7 - but did see B3 (could be wrong)

I didn't see any of those either. But a lot of B3 is in there which has always been our favorite building to stay in. How will this affect us from now on? Are the pools of rooms completely separate inventories and not overlapping? If we requested B3, would we be able to get it?

 

[okwiater]

Keep in mind, the deeded specs of the units in Flex don't matter any more than they do for personally owned units. Just because a deed is in building 4 doesn't mean its usage rights are limited to units in building 4, any more than that would be the case if you personally bought such a unit.

 

[dioxide45]

Keep in mind, the deeded specs of the units in Flex don't matter any more than they do for personally owned units. Just because a deed is in building 4 doesn't mean its usage rights are limited to units in building 4, any more than that would be the case if you personally bought such a unit.

Correct. The flex units are just as subject to "floating unit" as a weeks owner. So a flex reservation can be placed in to any of the unit it floats in, just as an owner can be placed in any such unit. However, when it comes to StarOption reservation, it is all Vistana's game.

 

[VacationForever]

But whatever seasons that they are deeded for still holds. So no ski weeks at Riverfront, no red weeks in the desert, no oceanfront at Maui.

 

[Helios]

But whatever seasons that they are deeded for still holds. So no ski weeks at Riverfront, no red weeks in the desert, no oceanfront at Maui.

That is terrible. Not sure why someone would go for this with no OF and no WRF ski weeks. But, I bet some will...

 

[VacationForever]

That is terrible. Not sure why someone would go for this with no OF and no WRF ski weeks. But, I bet some will...

... because the salespeople do not tell the the truth as to what weeks are in them, except that they were island view in Maui as reported by the OP.

 

[dioxide45]

As new resorts and phases come online, I would expect Vistana to put those units in to the trust. So as someone pointed out, It seems that there is still more build at Riverfront? If so, ski weeks will be added and become available. Unless Vistana decides to sell those off separately at a huge profit.